Reptile & Amphibian Forums

http://www.wggb.com/Global/story.asp?s=12971275

It just dosent get any funnier than that (and at the same time its sad to know people are that stupid).
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1.0 c.b.02' 7' Pastel Colombian Boa(thanks Bill!)"Maverick"
0.1 c.b.06' 6' Firebelly x Pastel boa "Betty Boa"
0.1 c.b. 07 5' Amazon Basin Redtail Boa"Lola Boa"1.0 c.b. 05 6' Blonde Bullsnake "Boo"
1.0 c.b. 05'2' Snow Corn "Zero"
1.0 wc 4' Fl.Cornsnake "Iggy"
0.1 cb 18"Okeetee Cornsnake "Bella"
1.0 wc 3'everglades x yellow ratsnake "Achmed"
1.1 wc LTC Southern WhiteLip PYthons "Thorne and Ariel"

Sometimes it is hard to say what the real failure is, the person who "owned" the animal? The person "caring for" the animal? The experct called in to "capture & identify" the animal? The media that should "fact check" the story?

I give them all an "F" on this...
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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

Is there a contact for that station to demand a correction? I would like to bombard them with a bunch of people writing in to get their facts straight.
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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

Is there a contact for that station to demand a correction? I would like to bombard them with a bunch of people writing in to get their facts straight.

Found but a single relevant email address:

assignmentdesk@wgbb.com

And here's what I sent:

Hello,

A link to your story on an alleged "anaconda" was sent to me by a concerned individual. I hope that you issue a correction to your story--provided you check the information I am providing you here, as it is readily apparent to the casual observer that due dilligence was not carried out in initially reporting this story.

- The snake is NOT an anaconda; it's not even an "exotic" snake. It's a bullsnake, or gopher snake, of the genus _Pituophis_. In other words, this is a snake that is NATIVE to the United States, and from the video on your story, it appears to be a full-grown individual. Bullsnakes and gopher snakes grow to about 6 feet in length--nowhere near the "18 feet" espoused by the exterminator.

- The picture accompanying the story (behind Mr. Cline in the video) IS a photograph of a green anaconda. Look at the picture of the anaconda and compare it to the snake found in the apartment. Not even close in appearance.

- Bullsnakes and gopher snakes ARE readily available in the pet trade, including as long-term (over multiple generations) domestically-produced individuals. They hiss as a defense mechanism but are generally docile and DO make suitable pets if one cares for them properly. They AREN'T that expensive to feed, unlike the "expert" exterminator in the segment suggests. In fact, they are much cheaper to maintain than the average dog or cat.

-

- About the only thing the piece got right was that the caging was inadequate, and this was readily apparent.

I encourage you to not merely take my word for it, but to do even a cursory Google image search for "bullsnake" and "anaconda" and verify the species identification I've suggested here. To leave the story as-is without broadcasting a correction does great harm to our native snakes, as people watching your news program could encounter these SAME SNAKES in the wild and mistakenly believe we're being overrun with "exotic anacondas." Furthermore, it maligns an entire growing segment of the US population who derives great personal satisfaction and enjoyment from maintaining snakes and other reptiles in their home with no problems whatsoever.

The favor of a reply to this email is requested.

Sincerely,
Chris McMartin
Reptile Enthusiast and Keeper since 1982

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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

I agree, we need to start embarrassing these irresponsible, incompetent reporters.

Here's what I sent within seconds after reading the original post.

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Dear Mr. Cline/ABC40,

I just came across a link to Mr. Cline's story about the "anaconda" that was found in an apartment building. The snake that was found was definitely NOT and anaconda, which should have been obvious to anyone comparing that snake with the big anaconda graphic shown behind Mr. Cline in the studio. They look
nothing alike. And of course, obviously no person with even a marginal amount of snake knowledge was consulted, since the snake would not have been mis-identified if there had been. Sorry to sound harsh, but in addition to these types of stories simply
being ignorant and not fact-checked, they also create hysteria and misunderstanding of snakes. Please do your viewers a service by correcting this gross error, and maybe even doing a story
on responsible snake owners (of which there are many.)

Thanks for your time!
Ed

They don't care...it made a good story.

>>They don't care...it made a good story.

You are probably right, but somehow and at some point we need to make them care. I don't know if this could legally be considered criminal negligence, but it certainly is unethical, especially if they don't make a correction. What really bugs me is there is so much blaming of (and self-blaming by) reptile owners (ie, we need to "self-regulate" ourselves), but where are all the demands for "self-regulation" of the media or academia, both
of which continue to disseminate more and more deception/junk/misinformation regarding snakes??

As far as "self regulation" goes, it's a matter of concerning ourselves with circumstances we have control over and not concerning ourselves with circumstances we have no control over. It is a matter of proactively closing down the objections of those that oppose what we do...through education, exposure, advocacy, and moderation.
It's a matter of being realistic and of being pragmatic. We face the reality of the situation every day. It is not getting any better by us sitting on our hands and doing nothing for ourselves. That is painfully obvious. The hypothetically ideal does not exist and never will.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

"The hypothetically ideal does not exist and never will."

John,

I agree, that is really my point. Yes, we all *should* be responsible owners, and yes, we *should* all do educational presentations. I do them at my kids' schools and museums, and I do informal demonstrations in my neighborhood all the time. Educating people is probably the number one priority for us. But this vague concept of "self-regulation", what exactly is it? How will it be enforced? Why would every herp owner adhere to or agree with the as-of-yet-undefined "regulations?" I've been reading about "self-regulation" for years, but so far it seems to fall under the category of "nebulous wishful thinking, feel good type stuff" with no substance or realistic implementation. And like you said, "The hypothetically ideal does not exist and never will." There will always be a small percentage of irresponsible owners, and there will always be an occasional accident or negligent behavior where an animal gets loose. Do I like that? Of course not, but it's reality. If we allow the enemy to make a huge, hysterical mountain out of the occasional 1 in a million accident or every occasional case of an owner being irresponsible, we will lose, regardless of any "self regulation."

On the other side of things, would we be in this predicament if
junk science weren't so easy to disseminate, or if the media were held accountable for perpetuating misinformation and hysteria? In this day and age, it's downright unacceptable that the majority of Americans are so phobic and uneducated when it comes to snakes and reptiles in general. Assuming "self regulation" can be achieved, imo it's orders of magnitude more important that gov't employed/funded scientists and the media be "self regulated", as opposed to a small group like reptile owners.

Ok, enough venting for the day.

Thanks,
Ed

It could technically be said that the snake WAS wandering loose in Springfield, although it it was found within an apartment within Springfield. However, that info is not conveyed just by reading the headline alone. Think of it as a half truth designed to mislead and incite unnecessary fear among the public all to sell a headline.

The apartment where the snake was found most likely has a rodent problem. Does anyone know if they've disabled the video?
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

doh!!!!

If you read on the ball python story, many people have contacted this news station. One person was told that they are now working on a retraction. People went as far as calling the exterminator and talking to the manager about the man handling the snake and stating "facts" about the snake in which he was no expert on.
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Teresa
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3.0 Dogs (2.0 Chihuahuas, 1.0 Toy Poodle)
1.5 Cats
1.0 Cockatiel
1.0 Indonesian Blue tongue skink

Ball Pythons
0.1 100% Het Albino (Watsini)
1.0 Pastel (Sweets)
0.1 Spider (Daisy)

I put most of the blame for the inaccuracies on Tom Supinksi. He is after all a licensed exotic removal expert so there is no reason why Fox should not have believed him. Second to blame would be whatever agency issued the license to him.

I think it's really sad to see this so-called expert cruelly using tongs to pick up a big bullsnake by the neck and not supporting the body at all. If that snake had struggled it's neck might have been easily broken. It's also frustrating thinking about how this guy is actually licensed as an expert in exotics and holds a position of authority, albeit a fairly minor one. The public and the animals would be better served if the goverment were more willing to work with and use as removal and rescue experts, the private keepers who actually love these animals.

>>I put most of the blame for the inaccuracies on Tom Supinksi. He is after all a licensed exotic removal expert so there is no reason why Fox should not have believed him. Second to blame would be whatever agency issued the license to him.
>>

I know this may sound far-fetched, but I'm suspicious of the whole story. Why was this news? Who called the TV station? The neighbor didn't know what type of snake it was?? Why did this animal "expert" claim that a bull snake was an anaconda? And combine all that with his editorial comments about how "exotics" should not even be in a country "where they don't belong"... Hopefully this a just case of some idiot wanting publicity and saying stupid things, and nothing more.

Okay, let me go shoot down the black helicopters circling my house...

Unfortunately, snakes are always news....hamsters are not.

{Detailed News Video at URL below}

WGGB (Springfield, Massachusetts) 20 August 10 The Great Snake Debate (Jim Cline)
Springfield, Mass.: On August 12th, the Springfield police received a call that an anaconda was loose in an apartment building.
Hearing the dispatch, we ran to cover this and when we arrived at East Park, Tom Supinski, a local pest elimination expert, had removed this snake from the premises. He said it was an anaconda, a snake that could grow to 24 feet.
Our story started to make the rounds on the Internet and we have received numerous e-mails telling us that the snake is not an anaconda. It's a bull snake or a gopher snake, of the genus pituophis. It is indigenous to his country and not the Amazon basin. They also do make suitable pets, if you know what you're doing.
On Friday, we visited the Southwick's Zoo in Mendon, Mass., which has a young green anaconda. It does not resemble a bull snake, other than the fact that they are both snakes. According to Tim Cornwall, an education coordinator at the zoo, anacondas are not good pets because they get so large. They are not usually the most docile snake either. They can be aggressive.
It's a snake that can grow to 500 pounds and that can be a dangerous animal. "I would never recommend an individual owning a snake like this," Cornwall says, "They're just way too dangerous. They are too unpredictable."
The Great Snake Debate

The passive aggressive approach to a retraction/correction.
Way too much extreme information about Green Anacondas and not enough fact based information about Bullsnakes.
Did you know that Humans can grow to as much as seven and a half feet tall and weigh well over 500 lbs? Let's keep things in perspective.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I agree, John. A little too much unnecessary (sensationalized) info for a correction, which may leave the reader even more confused about the incident.

np.

If anacondas are far too dangerous and unpredictable, then you have to wonder why that zookeeper was freehandling one...

Hmm, doesn't quite bear out.

"If anacondas are far too dangerous and unpredictable, then you have to wonder why that zookeeper was freehandling one...

Hmm, doesn't quite bear out."
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If you are an employee of an AZA member zoo or institution, you are a "professional", and so you are qualified and adequately trained to deal with dangerous and unpredictable animals. If you are not affiliated with such an institution, you are an amateur or hobbyist and therefore you are not qualified and trained to deal with dangerous and unpredictable animals, even if you have been keeping and breeding large anacondas and crocodiles for decades.

While not specifically related to reptiles, I can recall several fatal tiger and big cat maulings for instance that occurred at AZA "accredited" zoos and other facilities over the past decade or two. I also have little doubt that hot bites and crocodilian and large constrictor related incidents have also occurred at AZA facilities as well that may have not been as widely publicized. And not to mention their death rates of many various animals from improper husbandry.
So, it would seem that their track records are not entirely free of blemishes either. But yet AZA accredited facilities still want themselves exempted from bans and subsequently throw those of us in the private sector under the bus even in cases where we were not responsible for a given incident or in cases where we have a proven better track record regarding animal husbandry and protocols.

It should be remembered that the AZA is not a branch of the government. The AZA does not have any judicial powers to impose fines or penalties on any of its members or anyone else that violates any of the suggested "AZA standards". The AZA has no animals nor do they own or operate any zoo or aquarium of their own. Also the AZA holds no required USDA license to conduct any activity as defined under the Animal Welfare Act of the United States (the Act). The fact of the matter is that the AZA is essentially a glorified chamber of commerce that requires expensive filing fees and membership dues in order to receive "accreditation" status. Furthermore, this accreditation includes added buyer incentives such as exempting helps cut the red tape" and "exempts institutions from certain government requirements primarily at the state level (which is essentially a "get-away-with-anything card".
With all of that said, could the motive be boiled down to MONEY? If you are not making enough, knock off your competition to get their share - it's that simple. Is it plausible that AZA facilities simply see non accredited facilities and those of us in the private sector simply as competition to be eliminated therefore giving AZA facilities elite status?

I saw Alan Kardon of the San Antonio Zoo on TV last weekend during the weekend movies. He did a couple of "live" advertisement spots for the San Antonio Zoo, displaying and touting the many baby Mexican Pit Vipers/venomous they'd produced this year. "So, come out and see them. They're our specialty here at the San Antonio Zoo". He was standing in front of and pointed to racks of venomous as he spoke.

How come the "professionals" never come out in our defense whenever the ignorant wackos hit the news media with the "they were being kept in plastic storage containers"? Imagine that? Like there is something wrong with it.

I think it is time we found out how many zoos do as we do. It was long ago, but believe I recall wash tubs and plastic containers behind the scene in Houston.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I kept Green anacondas for almost 20 yrs up until a few years ago before the roc laws went into effect (I have serious issues with microchips and giving up my 4th amendment rights to the fwc.).
A friend of mine who works with chameleons quite extensively was volunteering at the jacksonville zoo a few years back and introduced me to some of his zoo-keeper friends from the zoo. The subject of the discussion went to anacondas due to my friend knowing I worked with them and also due to the fact that they were apparently working with them at the jacksonville zoo as well.
By the end of the conversation, with the exception of my friend who has way more intelligence than the whole sum of his zoo-keeper friends I wouldn't have been willing to let a single one of these idiots within 100 yards of my house (I have acreage.) much less anywhere near my anacondas. I won't bother to get into the water monitors I still maintain.
The word dumbasp comes to mind in reference to these individuals, and yet Those of us in the private sector are considered amatuers and they are the supposed "professionals" who should be the only ones allowed to work with such animals.

Yep, most "professional organizations" are an incestuous, xenophobic bunch, which is why I don't belong to any professional organizations.

It wouldn't be so bad if their position were: "We belong to this organization because of our qualifications, but there may also be those who don't belong to our organization that may be even more qualified than we are."; however, I doubt you will ever find a professional organization willing to admit that.

This was all the main reason for the idea behind the IHS meetings started years ago. The idea of both zoos and private keepers sharing husbandry and breeding info was new at the time. There was more money in the private sector than in the zoos for breeding.

And watching the video, the people at the station may know the difference between an anaconda and a bullsnake, but they don't know the difference beteen a bullsnake and a corn snake.

In all fairness That's asking a bit much from the talking heads who read from a teleprompter. All kidding aside most people just aren't into snakes on that level to be able to tell the difference between a bullsnake and a corn snake.
BTW did you ever have that old field guide to reptiles and amphibians that had drawings of the snakes instead of photos (I think it was put out by golden books...I still have pieces of my 30 year old original copy floating around.) I can remember growing up in texas and catching bull snakes and looking them up in the field guide (my other bible.) and thinking from the pics and the range maps that showed rat snakes ranging into our area that they could be corn snakes and not bull snakes. It was not until a few years later that I found out that corn snakes don't range into south texas and the bull snakes where I lived had some serious red coloration to them that would put some red rats to shame. Not to mention those drawings weren't the best reference out there. So I could see this confusion, I mean I wouldn't know one football player from the next.

Having spent 10 years of my life in TV, the talking heads have to read what a producer is writing, and they are supposed to know what they're writing. I've seen cases of the person's name being put in front of a person and the director being asked if that was really the person it was supposed to be. The response? "It's them, now!"

One of my favorite ones was a report on wkmg in orlando a few years back about political unrest in the galapagos islands at the end of the report the news caster mentioned how the galapagos islands are famous for their animals and the proceeded to mention chimps, elephants and I think antelopes or gazelles(don't remember exactly which one now.) I was rolling on the floor laughing so hard I almost wet myself. That report came about 2 days after a report telling us that nile monitors weigh up to 200 hundred pounds along with some other ridiculous facts about them that had the same effect. At the time they had a nile running around an orlando suburb called cassleberry so I was keeping track of the story. That galapagos story with references to african animals was just over the top though. Too the newscasters credit he read it without missing a note but I really wondered what kind of idiots they had behind the scenes and if they were screwing with the newscaster or just plain stupid.