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That is, Hypo Champagne Pied! Good guesses, everyone. I was out at BHB yesterday photographing colubrids and this snake blew me away. I had to get some photos of it- Can't wait to see it at 300g!

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/30472215@N04/

Sorry, all. I had meant to make this a reply to my original post below!
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/30472215@N04/

Very nice. Looks like one of those orange creme popsicles I used to eat as a kid.
Grant

That is a great looking combo!! Congrats Chris Hall

Hmmm....As someone who has produced many a Champagne and Mimosa'a I wonder what the parent's used to produce this animal were? I have animals here with that much or more white and though nice ringers they are not pieds. Do you know for sure Brian bred Champagne het pied to Pied? Super nice animal either way. I know I love looking at mine!

That would be a question for Brian to answer. I didn't speak at length with him about the pairing he used to produce this animal. I'm basically calling it what he's calling it.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/30472215@N04/

I see. Well if Brian ever gets online perhaps he will let us know! With the Mimosa's I have here they look the same in color and I guess I just thought the color from the pied would have changed the color overall a bit more. That's why I asked. Thanks for the reply.

from what i know the puma has the same effect as the spider when mixed in with the pied morph in that the only pattern that's usually on the combo is the head pattern.

.....but we now also know that a spied can also be a fully white snake.

maybe the hypo gene has some effect to the pattern? to me it looks like a superb ringer.

......only the breeder would know what it is for sure....everyone else can just speculate.

Pitoon

>>I see. Well if Brian ever gets online perhaps he will let us know! With the Mimosa's I have here they look the same in color and I guess I just thought the color from the pied would have changed the color overall a bit more. That's why I asked. Thanks for the reply.
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Yep I was thinking nice ringer Mimosa as well. I was able to buy the second Mimosa male ever produced from Brock last year and I know where the other two are and there not at Brian's. So unless he hit on a poss double het male AND female I would have to say it's a fancy ringer. Super nice fancy ringer don't get me wrong! Hope Brian finds a minute to let us know on here! Brian you out there?!

i agree that its probably a ringer aswell, from pics i have seen of other champ ringers. That being said, brian has ghost pieds, how long ago did he produce them? If its a few years, is it not possible, a ghost pied female's first mate was a champagne, and then a champagne DH son bred back to mum?
If i remember right, in a [ban] episode a week or two back, he actually shows this same snake, and also calls it a mimosa pied.
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Dave

15.24 brbs
4.8 crbs
Im an aussie in an arctic environment
Helsinki, Finland

Anything's possible! But likely? Meh.. Doesn't matter as were all guessing in the dark till we here directly..

Just for the sake of the story, BHB was one of the first people to have a Champagne from Africa. It's in fact one of the first times (that I'm aware of at least, BHB, Kevin, and others may know more) that big breeders discovered the African "Ball Lord" was really working us over. My friend Marcello (In Italy), BHB, and Brian Kolwitz (sp?) all had Champagnes from Africa on display at Daytona several years ago, before anyone else had them.

I don't have a Champagne yet so, I don't know anything about their ringer throwing or whatnot... I DO know I saw some pics of the first snakes hatched in Italy ... Marcello was very proud, he said "Jeff, I have a new ball python morph, I'm going to call it Champagne"

My point is BHB could have lots of Champagne stuff we don't even know about. If it is a Pied Mimosa, its fantastic... If not its still a awesome looking snake.

i don't think your story below is 100% correct......

several years back there was a big commotion between, Ralph Davis, Mike Wilbanks, and Marcello. this "new morph" popped into the picture and the new name given to it at the time was the "Puma" here in Europe. Later Nerd pops out the name "Champagne" and this name sticks with the morph. that's why i sometimes refer the "champange" with the name "Puma"

don't confuse the Amir's "Puma" with the European "Puma"...two totally different morphs. just like Stefan's European "banana" and the USA "banana/white smoke/coral glow" something both totally different.

you know Marcello? have you been to italy? europe? you talk like you have been friends with him for years........

Pitoon

>>Just for the sake of the story, BHB was one of the first people to have a Champagne from Africa. It's in fact one of the first times (that I'm aware of at least, BHB, Kevin, and others may know more) that big breeders discovered the African "Ball Lord" was really working us over. My friend Marcello (In Italy), BHB, and Brian Kolwitz (sp?) all had Champagnes from Africa on display at Daytona several years ago, before anyone else had them.
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>>I don't have a Champagne yet so, I don't know anything about their ringer throwing or whatnot... I DO know I saw some pics of the first snakes hatched in Italy ... Marcello was very proud, he said "Jeff, I have a new ball python morph, I'm going to call it Champagne"
>>
>>My point is BHB could have lots of Champagne stuff we don't even know about. If it is a Pied Mimosa, its fantastic... If not its still a awesome looking snake.

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He was sitting right next to me showing me pics on his laptop when he called it a Champagne, nothing called a puma was ever mentioned. He used to visit Mike and Bob here in Oklahoma for about a month. We would all go to Arlington for the "Bob & Mike" (now NARBC) show, he'd stay long enough to go to Daytona and then go home. I haven't spoken to him in a couple years. We were never besties or anything, we hung out and had dinner on may occasions while he was here and he came to my house to check out my ball pythons.

Had I not been there with him while his facet of the story unfolded, I would have never brought it up.

I've never been to Italy, But Europe...yes.

I also have produced several Champagne combos.
Although many are born with this "ringer/pied-like" patterning....they are not usually related to the true Recessive Pied Ball Python Morph.

The attached photo is a Saffron.
The Saffron is a Champagne X Sable.
They were first produced here by me at WALL TO WALL REPTILES!
ALL Saffron have the "ringer/pied-like" markings...but do not contain any True Pied genetics.

I have seen a True Pied/Champagne (produced in Italy).
The snake posted above (Created by BHB) does not look the same.

It does look like a very nice ringer patterned Mimosa.

Just my thoughts on this great looking snake.
Congrats on the Mimosa Brian!
(I would love to hear your comments on the snake in question.)

Sincerely,
Harlin Wall - WALL TO WALL REPTILES!
970-245-7611
970-255-9255

Yep that's typical over here too! Lot's of ringers in the Champagne gene to be sure. Even that animal in Italy is suspect at best but that's another story...

I agree. What a awesome way to achieve the pied look with out the pied gene involved. Nice mimosa ringer but its just that mimosa ringer. I bet the parents of it were champ het ghost to ghost pied and Brian prob thought the champ was also het pied. Good to know that the pros make mistakes and get too excited as well.

This is not directed at Harlin. You have first hand experience looking at the animal in Italy, but the rest of you guys are trolls. You are basing all your speculations on assumptions you have made about this animal. You even go so far as to say BHB made a mistake in his excitement. How do we know that? Brian hasnt made his way over to comment on it so who is to say he is wrong? Maybe the original poster misunderstood, or maybe all you guys have misjudged a low white mimosa pied because of what you assume it would look like. Plus we cannot even see what the entire snake looks like in either picture, so you are basing even more on assumptions. Guys don't be upset that you don't own the snake, probably don't even own the ingredients let alone know how to follow the recipe. Anyway where I'm from we call you guys "haters."
Will

Only Troll I see is the mouthy one looking for a fight? If you haven't anything to add to the thread then don't! No need to be rude when others are being honest about what they think an animal may or may not be when pictures get posted on a public forum. That clearly shows all of us who the "hater" here is.

E per la cronaca Harlan non è l'unico che ha il contatto con animali che in Italia ..

Troll was a bad word. I apologize for any offense taken to it. Also see I made an assumption. I assumed your opinions were uneducated. My apologies. All I was trying to say is the original poster was just trying to show us a beautiful snake. Why take his thunder? I was also saying that the overall tone seemed very negative towards what the snake is speculated to be or not be. It may very well be a nice ringer, but then again it may be a nice low white pied. It's kind of unfair to Brian also who hasn't had a chance to tell us more about it. I wasn't looking for a fight, and the post wasn't directed directly at you nor anyone else for that matter. Just kind of bothered me that the overall tone was a downer on the snake. I remember 5-6 years ago when a snake like that would have made everyone stop and consider selling their children to buy one lol.

maybe you should read my original post on this thread before you start rambling......

if you want to see more pics of the snake just look around....you'll find them....it's even in a video.

Pitoon

>>This is not directed at Harlin. You have first hand experience looking at the animal in Italy, but the rest of you guys are trolls. You are basing all your speculations on assumptions you have made about this animal. You even go so far as to say BHB made a mistake in his excitement. How do we know that? Brian hasnt made his way over to comment on it so who is to say he is wrong? Maybe the original poster misunderstood, or maybe all you guys have misjudged a low white mimosa pied because of what you assume it would look like. Plus we cannot even see what the entire snake looks like in either picture, so you are basing even more on assumptions. Guys don't be upset that you don't own the snake, probably don't even own the ingredients let alone know how to follow the recipe. Anyway where I'm from we call you guys "haters."
>>Will
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Wasn't directed at you. I found your post to be pretty neutral. Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for pointing me to looking for the video with it on there. I didn't know that it existed, but I found it and thought it was very helpful in my speculation.
Will

I'd have to agree with Josh on this one. I would find you coming to the Breeder's defense admirable if everyone was attacking him. However, the above posts barely seem to register as lively discussion, let alone an affront of said Breeder.

As has been said many times during this topic before your tirade: We may only speculate about the snake's true genetic make-up. Only the Breeder can reveal this. Either way, the snake is a beautiful specimen.

Anyway, where I'm from, we call guys like you a "spaz".
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.0 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

Ok, hmm spaz? Lol ok. No but really I apologize for saying trolls. I'm just saying it's a beautiful snake, and we honestly have no idea what it is. We can speculate and speculate all day long, and that is fine. There comes a point when it becomes negative though, and I feel like it was quickly going that way when the original poster just wanted to share some eye candy with fellow enthusiasts. I would assume that a good high white mimosa pied would look completely different then the snake in question, but again it isn't based on anything I have created first hand. I don't know what a mimosa pied would look like so I chose to be respectful of BHB and not give my opinion of what I think it is. Once again I haven't produced one so what I think it is doesn't matter. I guess I'm a spaz but do you get what I'm saying?
Will

Well....

There is no reason to call anyone a troll.
Long before I ever posted, there have been plenty of posts both here and on several other forums that expressed the same doubts and questions.

In all fairness, Brian is probably busy getting things prepared for the big expo. He should have a chance to respond to the questions presented here.

And really....who cares if it is not actually a pied mimosa.
For obvious reasons, anyone can see that calling this snake a pied mimosa could easily be an honest mistake. He would not be the first person to do that this season...or even last season!

For all we know it might actually be a Pied Mimosa.

And Josh is right....for the record...I am not the only person who has contact with animals in Italy. LOL.

Ehi Josh,

Forse io non parlo italiano.
Tuttavia, posso facilmente usare il traduttore di Google.
Il tuo amico,
Harlin

Take care all.
Your friend,
Harlin Wall - WALL TO WALL REPTILES!
970-245-7611
970-255-9255

uomo divertente! ciao!

mammia! allora sembra che tutti i due usato qualche traduttore per scrivere cosi male.

il problema con i traduttori e che il computer non parla....quindi non sa a usare la parola giusta.

per quello puoi vedere subito quando qualcuno hanno usato un traduttore

.....now translate what i wrote and see if it makes sense!?!?

Pitoon

>>uomo divertente! ciao!
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Pitoon,

HA HA HA!!!! We have been BUSTED!!!
Great post. I have not laughed this hard in quite some time.
Glad someone else was able to enjoy the humor too.

Take care my friend.

Harlin

Harlan,
yup it was funny!

hope this upcoming season is better than the last for ya!

Pitoon

>>Pitoon,
>>
>>HA HA HA!!!! We have been BUSTED!!!
>>Great post. I have not laughed this hard in quite some time.
>>Glad someone else was able to enjoy the humor too.
>>
>>Take care my friend.
>>
>>Harlin
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Pitoon,

Thanks dude.
Always nice to hear from you.
Every year just keeps getting better. I wish the same for you.
Talk to you later.

Harlin

You are too funny! Tu farai piangere Wolherwi.. hai qualcosa di interessante?
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Brian Hettinger
480 Pythons
Contact us

nothing spectacular...lost a couple clutches that i was trying to prove some balls out with. the females gained their weight back, so maybe this upcoming season?

have a pastel lesser x pinstripe clutch in the incubator...hoping for some lemonblasts and kingpins....another month of waiting till i'll find out!

Pitoon

>>You are too funny! Tu farai piangere Wolherwi.. hai qualcosa di interessante?
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>>Brian Hettinger
>>480 Pythons
>>Contact us
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Homepage
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n/p