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Sharp/Prodigy = The "Paradise Boa"

I considered this potentially my most important breeding of the 2009-2010 season. That being the Het Sharp Albino to a Prodigy Boa breeding. The hope was to make a new and potentially visually extreme combination T-Positive type mutation. If both the Prodigy T-Pos and the Sharp Albino mutations happen to live on the exact same gene, we would see something brand new. Imagine a new "T-Positive" type Boa that is more extreme than the Prodigy Boas. That potential makes me weak in the knees to contemplate.

I bred a Prodigy male Boa, pictured below, to a large Het Sharp female. The Het Sharp female was a "virgin" female.

She deposited the answer I was looking for a little over two weeks early on July 23rd. She had two slugs and two premature babies. I have been hoping that she was going to have the rest of the litter but have recently given up hope. Today she is at 135 days since ovulation and is fully opaque. I would be very surprised if she still has babies in there to deliver. I’d be delighted to see the full term Sharp/Prodigy, but that most likely isn’t going to happen before 2011. Here is the answer I was hoping for in this breeding though too early to be full term.

Both are premature while one is normal and the other clearly is not. I am calling this the "Paradise Boa"!

My theory and belief is that the "Paradise Boas" will be something more extreme than a Prodigy but not as extreme as a Sharp Albino. Unfortunately, we do not know exactly what will come from this combination yet, though we can certainly look forward to it.

For those who are unfamiliar with the Prodigy Boas. There are only six of them in existence. Clay English produced them in 2007 using a female he purchased from me in 2000 and a male he bought from an on-line classified from a pet store in California.

Here is the trio that Clay purchased from me in 2000:

The babies Clay purchased from me came from adults that I obtained in a trade for Peruvians around 1993 from a guy name Matthew Rodda, who I believe is out of Boas for some time now. But he was from the West Coast, same as Clay's male and father of the Prodigy Boa litter.

Here is the Daddy of the Prodigy Boas.

Here is a shot of that pair breeding the season the Prodigy Boas were produced.

Two shots of the litter of Prodigy Boas Clay English produced in 2007:

The beauty of the Prodigy Boas is that gorgeous light yellow color. The same yellow that is seen in only the very best Peruvian Red Tails. The same yellow that pops out at you in some of the very best Jungles on the planet. The anticipated even more extreme “Paradise Boas” are something that I can’t wait to see!

Here is a virtual parade of four of the only six Prodigy Boas on the planet so you can see how exceptional the Prodigy Boas are in their own right. The first three are all Clay English’s Prodigies in pictures Clay took when they were 15 months of age.

This is the male Prodigy I used in the breeding detailed above in pictures taken when he was about 4 or 4 1/2' and 28 months old.

And finally a few pictures of the babies my Prodigy female produced ten days ago today:

Here is a shot of one Hypo and a Motley both Het Prodigy after they shed just yesterday:

It has been a very good Boa breeding season so far. I can’t wait for the last few litters to be born so I can start planning for next year with a clear head!

The fine print… the simple fact is we do not know for 100% certain that there is a Sharp/Prodigy Boa. Not for sure. IT sure looks like it and I would bet a LOT if I was a betting man that there will be. Though I doubt anyone would take that bet given the results we have seen so far. Still, that will not be known without further breeding trials. I think that I might be trying again in the 2010-2011 Boa breeding season to get those 100% answers. I am looking forward to the adventure.

Oh, and thank you Steve Hamm for the great name suggestion! "Paradise Boas"! I love that!
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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

Sorry to hear about the litter's health ... BUT Great to hear that something special looks like it will come of the genetic combo!!!! Look forward to seeing the babies when a healthy specimen is produced in the not to distant future
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Trey Stowell
BoaCraft Reptiles
Wichita, KS
www.boacraftreptiles.com
trey@boacraft.com

First let me say congratulations. It looks like you may have something very good going on there.

My problem is naming dead animals before viable babies have been produced. I personally think breeders need to produce a viable morph before they can put a name to it. Many people spent a lot of money and time trying to make the elusive red devil and blizzard boas which never were produced in a viable form.

While it looks like you have created a new morph I think it is premature to give it a name before you have produced one that is alive and viable . Finally, given all of the recessive animals that we have seen born when only one parent carries a given trait, how do you know that isn't a premature Prodigy boa?

I hope you are correct and that this is a new morph that adds to the diversity of the T mutation combinations.

Congratulations on a great breeding season.

Bill Kirby

Good points and possible.

However, so far I have not heard of a simple recessive of any type popping up from a non-gene carrying female from the Homozygous male. With all the simple recessive breedings that have been done, the precedent of one having occurred would give more weight to that argument as a possibility. The fact that that has not happened, that I have ever heard of, leaves that as a remote possibility. Still I concede that it is a possibility.

The Motley gene and the Motley gene alone has done a lot of crazy stuff. I am not even aware of any other mutation that has done the inexplicable.

As for the name. Many have named unproven possible mutant animals in the past. Sometimes names stick. Sometimes they don't. That is a question I guess for Boa naming etiquette I suppose. When searching for a name, the name I wanted to use was "Platinum Boa". Out of respect for the person who named his Boa that name, though it is unproven, and though I have more reason now to believe what I have is what I speculate that it is, I showed difference to that other Boa guy and did not use the name he has "Squatted" upon in much the same way I fundamentally have... technically.
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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

It is all very cool, but Bill is absolutely correct. If things could be named w/o viable animals I think moonglows would be avalanche boas, if I remember correctly. Isn't that the name you had chosen Bill? There's a chance Clay may produce viable offpsring and may have wanted a different name. Maybe bad luck strikes and a viable baby isn't born until someone else has bought into the project. At that point, shouldn't they get rights to the naming process? The blizzard boa, lol, that whole thing is just ridiculous. I've seen a number of people get slammed for posting wild looking premies, but now we're naming them? Odds are that animal is a combo like the paradigm. Now, are prodigy boas another line of VPI T pos? If bred together, do you get hets? t pos? Has it been tried? Would a prodigy boa cost me twice as much as a VPI t pos, but end up being the same animal? I have no idea, have more prodigy boas been produced? You stated there were only 6 in existence, so do we know 100% that this trait is recessive? I see you have motley hets, but where are the breedings proving they're hets? Just some questions that get asked of most, but not all. I'm definitely interested in the answers.

discussions BUT I have to say that you are right on about some NOT being asked to prove their assumptions while others must jump through hoops of fire to prove the obvious. I would love to see a discussion on the "patternless" litters that have sprung up since 2005 from 'normal' appearing parents. Does this mean they 'must' be recessive? For some reason those discussions always seem to get removed by moderators. Hmm...?

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Ty Hege
Rat Race Solutions
www.ratracesolutions.com

One other small technicality that does make this a little different. These two were preemies. They were not done cooking. They weren't dead because there was a fatal gene or the mutation is not one that there is no evidence exists. Not huge differences but differences nonetheless. Still the point is a good one, though not exactly analogist.

One other thing. If this proves not to be exactly as I have speculated. You can count on the fact that this breeder will not continue to sell animals that are supposed to make the proposed mutants when he knows full well that mutant does not exist.
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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

Regarding your second comment I have known you for a long time and you have always been very honest and forthcoming with information to me and the boa community at large. I know you wouldn't misrepresent a project. Unfortunately, there are other people out there who have done this in the past and others will probably do it in the future. Partially my comments were aimed at protecting people from the missrepresentation that can come from dishonest breeders who prematurely name a dead baby a morph and then sell it as a project.

If this is indeed the Paradise boa then I look forward to seeing the paradise jungle blood from you in the future.

By the way is there a trend here that signifies you are getting tired of the cold? First Key West boas and now the Paradise boa. I sense an emergeing tropic theme.

Have fun in Daytona.

Bill

Congratulations on the "Paradise Boa" Jeff

An absolutely wonderful development !!!

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

And love the little dead bugger, you'll have the live ones soon breeding starts again before you know it...

I think they are not done developing their colors. I've been cutting ball python eggs open early for years and they all dont dont have their color even 5 days before they are due to hatch. I accidently cut the wrong clutch open 30 days before they were to hatch and they were all clear with faint patterns. once they got their color in at 60 days they were actually normals so I think you honestly jumped the gun here on naming something. but they are def neat looking and cool name but I think you could have normals there. but i am a negative person so you never know I could be wrong.

I agree with what your saying, but there is no boa that looks like the one on the right even when born early. Your right in the sense that it will perhaps be different looking at full term, but there is no doubt something genetically is going on with that right one. The darker one is generally what premies look like, I've had my share of bad litters to attest for this I say...

Jeff Knows they don't have their full pigment development, he also knows the Boa on left is a normal Boa.

It's the Boa on the right that is clearly a different mutation.

Of course the color of that mutation will be much more developed
on a full term boa baby.

It will look muck like a Paradigm or some form of T-Pos type Boa IMO

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

I dont agree that this animal was given a name is a bad thing. If it doesnt prove out later, then the name is available for others to use for their new boa creation.

Sorry about the results, but I bet you are correct on the Paradise. Thanks for being such a great asset to all of us boa nuts !

working in the same manner as the Paradigm, then there is a possibility the Prodigy and BW Caramel are the same mutation and compatible (just derived from different breedings/lines). This may be simplifying the genetics a bit, but I would be really interested in a Prodigy x BW Caramel cross to see if you would get the Prodigy/Caramel T positive phenotype. Food for thought...
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Ron Michelotti

Class Reptilia
www.classreptilia.com

You and I are on the same page I would say in our thought process anyway.

Below I will leave a Link to thread else where that discussed this Topic in detail

I post under the Avatar name Boa Amarali
but sign my post with a Signature

. . . Lar M

Click Link Below
Sharp/Prodigy = Paradise Boas

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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

Actually. If;

- If they are the exact identical mutation the offspring they would make would be an average of the two correct?

- If they are NOT the exact identical mutation the offspring they would make would be an average of the two and a new mutation like the Paradigm. correct?

Further- An additional breeding of the offspring from the first litter would tell the tale. If;

- You produced visually indecipherable offspring, the offspring would be an average of the two. They would not be a Paradigm like mutation. Then we would know the two mutations are exactly identical mutations correct?

- You produced visually two distinct groups of offspring, then we would know the two mutations are not the same mutations correct?

This additional breeding is the only way to prove the answer to that question.

However, have you ever seen a BWC that looks remotely like a Prodigy? I haven't. Seems like a long shot. But again. Nobody can say that they are the same or that they are not the same for certain without proving it. Anything said other than saying "I don't know for sure" is simply an opinion, hunch or speculation. As is this my following statement. "Based upon the clear difference in the visual appearance of the Prodigies and the BWC Boas out there, I think they are a different mutation that happens to reside on the same gene as the Sharp Albino mutation." That statement I just made is just an opinion based on the caramel color of the BWC Boas and the Jungle Boa like yellow of the Prodigy Boa. Same gene location. Differently expressed.
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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site