Reptile & Amphibian Forums

First off I love it. I wish I owned it, and the parents...so cheers Doug.

I did not read all the replies.... but I need to make a point.

One of the reasons I do not post on here much anymore is because I don't have time to argue.......... nope, I am done with redundant arguments I have had a dozen times already.

However, the Lavender Brooksi has been taking a beating for a decade as far as the whole Hybrid thing, yet I heard of one popping out of wild caught animals not once but TWICE. Still too many people wanted to argue about it.

I think this oddball snake of Dougs reinforces my already strong disagreement on the Lavs... I have seen Hybrid Lavs for sure but I have seem many more that look as pure as can be to me.

It's funny how on a forum opinions turn into a contest of who is a more serious herper.... because people chose a side and believe a story of a snakes history...well just "because they do".

I love that snake Doug, again I aint calling it out... I'd hope to produce more if I were you

Tom Stevens

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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

I understand where you are coming from Tom, and thanks, I also appreciate the compliment on the weird brooksi.

Now I don't know anything at all about the history of that lavender other than it seemed to look like a real nice example of an authentic lavender Eastern in the decent photo in the book. Without any history on it from Will, it can certainly be anyone's guess really. Jeff can feel free to breed it to whatever he wants to, but I was only recommending that if it was actually known to be a non-crossed genuine Eastern from wherever it originated, then it would be very cool to keep propagating them that way in my opinion.

See, Jeff certainly doesn't have a problem telling other people what they should do on many topics(on other forums too)..LOL! so I was only returning the kind favor to Jeff..LOL!. I told him about that lavender of Will's in Hubbs' getula book in another post we had way down here, so I was very pleasantly surprised to see that he managed to actually end up with it.

You would have really liked to see that photo if you don't already have the book yourself Tom(which I hope you do), it looked really nice man.

Anyway, I won't plan on arguing any about it, just simply gave my humble opinion there is all.

I can only hazard a guess as to who he meant by "stupid people", but I can assure Jeff that I am certainly not one of them, and that was not a real "smart" comment to be making here right off the bat.

Anyway, whatever he wants to do is quite okay with me, Nothing I have ever said has ever stopped him yet.

BTW, very interesting about the lavender brooksi you mentioned popping up from wild parents too Tom!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Doug, I really hope you and most that post here know what I meant by "stupid people". It was a broad poke at those that show up for 5 minutes, cast aspersions, then crawl back under the rock they came instead of actually doing the homework it would take to question a "new" morph properly. DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK PEOPLE, how many times have I said that Doug?? LOL And I agree that there is a MAJOR problem with the community when a single intergrade can question a breeders ethics and morals. Fiddlesticks. Imagine if one of my "pure" locality lines had produced it....what you are saying is that breeding anything but "pure"(and I DARE you to argue that side,lol)specimens makes someone a liar. Simply not true. I gave up my multihet yellow rat line and let it fade out simply because I was sick of all the negativity. In the age of the internet we have the luxury of archaives, and if someone wants to find the first post on a morph they need only do the work. Sadly there are several morphs in question mostly because their origins occured prior to the internet.
Now that anomaly you produced may turn out to be genetic. Will you breed it "true"? Will other people? You only have so much control, and this is why "locality nutz" and purity people HAVE to step up when a morph is new and "unadulterated". Of course this means they will have to pay more for their specimens. Which leads to jealou$y and pettiness. What I think is totally laughable is someone that shows up on our scene 20 years too late and "demands" purity! As a breeder I like to produce snakes that other people want while still having fun. If I knew I could breed this male to 10 "pure" females next year and have all the hets pre-sold, SURE that makes sense. I'd say the same thing about intergrades. There are now Red eye albinos, hypos, and jellies to name a few intergrade Easterns. I didnt produce them, but whose to say adding the morph there wouldnt boost interest? I would be a fool to limit my options right?
As far as me telling people what to do, not necessarily the truth. My experience with Coastal Plains milks is testament to my locality roots. I treat intergrades differently with kings simply because of MORPHS and I respect anyone that wants to keep and breed whatever they want. I can have strong OPINIONS on what should constitute "locality", but that is another thread.

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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

I realize you were referring specifically to lavender brooksi in your post. I assumed a few of the other lav. posts were what got you posting what you did. Sorry if that was not the case there.

Anyway, yeah, I fully understood what you were saying in your post about the lavender brooksi.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I thought Doug’s freak Brooksi picture, and his theory that anomalies like that happen more often than thought in the wild was spot on. I think inbreeding is where recessive genes come forward (no doubt) to constantly “test” the survivability through allowing a variation to establish that offers some local advantage. Then presto, a new clade appears. I think when we find these aberant wild types, like a “Goini” look way down below Lake Okeechoobee or something like that, it could be a simple thing where siblings have matured and bred. If the location is so perfect to support siblings never needing to move very far from birth, that might be nature’s way of promoting whatever is working, to continue that trait, or refine it further. This is how you could have a “Brooks” type pop up by Cape Canaveral, Tampa or anywhere. Just an inbred anomoly popping up by sheer chance. We are the ones who can force what nature has started to advance several generations on a fast track with selective breeding, and produce something nature wouldn’t have for fifty years, if ever.

I definitely agree with all you mentioned there too. That is how the dynamics of natural inheritence works and gets established. And as you mentioned, can also get thrown in a fast-forward time machine when siblings are bred to one another.

Good realistic thoughts there bro!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com