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The larger hog is a toffee belly, the smaller hog is a hypo. Is it just me or do they look the same?

They are both T-positive albino, so yes, they look similar. The distinguishing factor is the fact that most toffeebellies are paradox, with black flecking. I wonder if they would prove compatible if bred together though??
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Ultimate Hognose

Is it just me or do they look the same?

First off, I think the term Hypo is now pretty much considered a wrongful and obsolete term in regards to these animals as it has been presumed by many that these are Tpos Albinos.

I've always thought that Toffees and Tpos Albinos were almost indistinguishable with the exception of the black speckling. I'm only basing this though on photos I've seen of compared animals and I have never had the opportunity to examine both animals together in person to fully make a hardcore comparison of the two.

There are a lot of questions that have always been in my mind regarding the differences between Toffees and Tpos Albinos...
Despite the minimal black speckling that the Toffees exhibit, what is really the difference between the two?
Are they genetically related?
Are they genetically compatible (ie. will breeding a Toffee to a Tpos Albino produce normal het animals or Toffee/Tpos looking animals)?
What are the specifics of the black speckling, is it genetically linked to the color gene of the Toffees or is it something entirely different and heritable outside of the Toffee genes amongst it's het progeny?
What is the direct lineage of the Toffees, how far back can this trait be tracked to what specific animals and who owned/originated the ancestors and where did the ancestors originally come from?

I guess Toffees are still relatively new here in the US and extensive outcrossed breeding projects have either not been fruitful or not have even taken place yet. I know we here in the US have a long way to go to catch up with the Germans in working with the Toffees as the animals I've seen that Raimo and Stefan are producing are phenomenal.
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Troy Rexroth
Rextiles

You bring up some good points...
My thinking is that the two are different... They may look similar and in some cases the same but they my very well be incompatible... In other species that I have worked with like leopard geckos and boas, there are more than one strain of albino and the different strains are not compatible... They look the same but they are indeed different...

Here is the down side I see if the two are test bred to eachother... You will be creating double hets for traits that are very similar to eachother...If the double hets are then bred back to eachother, how will the seller and potential buyer know what is what being that they are so similar looking especially as hatchlings???

Just something to think about as it could cause a lot of confusion and mislabeling...

You bring up some good points...
My thinking is that the two are different... They may look similar and in some cases the same but they my very well be incompatible... In other species that I have worked with like leopard geckos and boas, there are more than one strain of albino and the different strains are not compatible... They look the same but they are indeed different...

This may very well be the case between these two animals, but until breeding trials have taken place to prove or disprove any compatibilities, we won't know for sure.

Here is the down side I see if the two are test bred to eachother... You will be creating double hets for traits that are very similar to eachother...If the double hets are then bred back to eachother, how will the seller and potential buyer know what is what being that they are so similar looking especially as hatchlings???

Just something to think about as it could cause a lot of confusion and mislabeling...

Well, you are looking at this from merely one perspective, that all offspring will always be sold or are saleable. See, I'm not looking at it from that perspective.

OK, let's say that all of the offspring are double het now, why would anybody want to sell those anyways? First off, who knows what they would produce? A good breeder of a scientific mind would take at least a pair and give it a shot to see what they might produce. Perhaps you would get a mish-mash of who knows what that is near impossible to tell apart. That outcome is very possible. But you will have learned two very important things, whether both lines are compatible or not and whether the black speckling is a determinate of a Toffee. A project like this would take many years to prove out but one that would be invaluable to understanding so much more about the Toffee genetics.

What do you do with the rest of the stock that you don't use? Well, there's a simple and ethical although unpopular method used in science, you simply cull them. I know that in today's world, especially in this reptile market, that people see dollar signs on every single thing they produce and that's fine to a degree, but some things are worth the time and energy to put into if even just to learn more about the animals and genetics we're working with.
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Troy Rexroth
Rextiles

When I´m not wrong, Kevin has some nice comparison shots from both morphs. Those shots fit my general observation. For all I have seen in pics the Toffee Bellys have more contrast than the Evans and an slightly darker coloration. They produce a darker red and not to forget...They are able to produce green coloration...The Neon
I can´t say it to often...ALL the Toffee Bellys have the black spots! But they are hard to find sometimes

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Greetings from Berlin
Stefan & Raimo

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