Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I wanna see what you guys picked up at Daytona! I know youa'll didn't just go to get drunk, lol.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

What happened to Doug he was only going Sat. ?

Yeah maybe he is still setting up all he purchased, lol. He said he wasn't going to buy anything. by the way did you pick that guy up there? What is it? A Mosaic?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

It is an amel Getula mix,sorry i didnt get the ingredients,sold as albino blotched.C

It would make for some interesting projects.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Yeah, I definitely didn't have to "set up" a big slew of snakes from Daytona, I didn't get anything at all.

Hell, by the time those guys came by to get me and we finally got there, the freakin show was 3/4's done!, not to mention them wanting to take off at 4:00 pm!!!

It was basically a "Hi!, and By!" thing for me this year..LOL!!

I saw 15 or 20 buddies real quick, then it was back on the road home.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

...man what a bummer...should have hooked up w/someone who might have wanted to stay longer and roadcruised on the way back..maybe even a vendor with nothing better to do..
Who knows, you/we may have found a calligaster...
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

Mark,
You should ride with me to the West Palm show on Saturday. If I go alone I'll be too sleepy on the way home to roadcruise and you know those mole kings will be flaggin' me down and stickin' out their little thumbs.
LP

>>...man what a bummer...should have hooked up w/someone who might have wanted to stay longer and roadcruised on the way back..maybe even a vendor with nothing better to do..
>>Who knows, you/we may have found a calligaster...
>>:Mark
>>-----
>>Surrender Dorothy!
>>
>>crimsonking.piczo.com/
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Lindsay Pike
Urotopia Uromastyx

The show just ened a few hours ago and most of us are still traveling to get home. Then it is time to set things up and rest.

In a nutshell the show was just okay. Loved seeing old friends even though most of the old time regulars did not come.

There were 130 table short this year (even last year had all tables sold) and Wayne decided to charge $15. for entrance fee. It was previously $10 before.

Colubrids did not sell well. Though I did see a lot of people buying cheap adult brook kings. The Ball pythons ruled again with remarkably good sales. I guess everybody is spending money on Balls and that is why there is not much money floating around for colubrids.

There was not a whole lot of selection on anything uuasual. And that is what brought a lot of people to this show in the past. Just mostly your regular of-the-mill kings, milks, corns, ratsnakes . Also the same with lizards and torts. i did see some remarkable water turtles though.

I was looking for the ususual . There used to be breeders who would work with hard to get or RARE species. just don't see that at the show anymore. mostly pet shop type stuff with a few high end morphs.

John Lassiter was hoping to find someone with aboreal alligator lizards and did not find a single one. I was hoping to see some myself.

I think we are seeing the last of what used to be the great big show. The promoter doesin't seem to care much anymore except for his posketbook. And even that he seems to have lost the desire to improve. I guess after doing this show since 1991 he got burned out or just to old to care.

The people will still come for a few year and he will still make money. But this show is just not what it used to be.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Thanks for the report! I read it last night when I was loading but I have a hard time answering from my phone. You did a good report too. I think that if we can get the economy back in swing things will get better at the shows. Also the ease of door to door shipping has put a dent in the shows I believe. I still rather go to the shows and hand pick my animals and do some bargain hunting! Did you pick up anything?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Thanks for the post Rainier. I had heard from a good buddy of mine who vended the show in the past that Daytona was not what it used to be. Its a shame and I missed my opportunity to go in its "Heyday"!!! I know some folks blame the economy on poor sales, especially with respect to colubrids. However, I also think the new herpers coming on board have no education regarding natural history, locality, etc. of these animals that make them so special to others. Its all about getting a "pet snake" and less about what that animal represents in nature IMO. I am not saying I will never go now, especially if a great opportunity arises. Still, I bet it would have been better five years ago!!!

I don't know Kevin I am actually more conscious of purity and location now then I ever was. This forum plays a huge part in that but I think there is a growing interest in locality animals and not just a good looking snake. Still I have trouble passing up a jaw dropping snake, lol. I think Rainer made a good point that the ball Python craze is still effecting the flow of money. I don't know how long it will last but, I am ready for it to at least calm down some. When Pieds show up for 100 dollars I think the frenzy will slow down.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I think you've got two things going on:

1) When I was a kid we went out and caught our own snakes. This meant to some extent we had to understand them, where they live, what habitat to check out, etc. Snakes aren't always easy to find in the wild (I grew up in Cleveland, but still found them in the city as well as Boy Scout camping trips and family fishing trips). These days most new hobbyists have never found a snake in the wild. To them a snake is a novelty which as a baby has the "natural habitat" of an 8 oz. deli cup.

Also, when I started keeping and breeding snakes, I listened to my elders. They had more experience than me. These days newcomers don't do that. They believe whatever they hear, without considering the source and swallow hook, line and sinker whatever a chain pet store employee or forum on the internet says (What do you MEAN corn snakes don't eat corn?).

2) The ball python market caused a large number of people to get into snakes not because they have a genuine interest, but for money. There's nothing wrong with making money, but the snake that has dominated the market for the last several years is largely seen as an "investment". This is true of several other types of snakes, but the scale of the ball python phenomenon makes the market for boas, Honduran milks, Corns, etc. seem like "chump change."

I think it's useful to consider that the same reason why you got into snakes is not the same reason that many newcomers are getting into them. I do not see a deep interest in the natural history of snakes in many of the people who have entered the hobby in the last several years. I also see an increase of people trying to make money as being the main incentive for keeping and breeding snakes.

Tim

I hadn't really started looking for snakes in the wild until I had been keeping them for a while, so that may come with experience. I mean, sure, I'd seen one or two on camping trips but I hadn't ever made it a point to go look for them. Now, I spent at least as much time in the field as in my snake room during summer/spring. So maybe they'll change if they keep on keeping herps and start to develop an interest in the natural history of them.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

I said this before and I'll say it again. If I don't love it I won't do it. Just like playing music I would rather play in a band that is barely making ends meet but playing music I love than play music I can't stand just to make money! King snakes are my passion and I do like some other colubrids and smaller boas but I never liked Ball Pythons and I'm not gonna pretend to love them now. Although some of the morphs today are tempting, yet once you get past the paintjob it's still a Ball Python, lol.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Those are all major factors of how this hobby has evolved over the years.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

N/P

I think you've got two things going on:

I think it's useful to consider that the same reason why you got into snakes is not the same reason that many newcomers are getting into them. I do not see a deep interest in the natural history of snakes in many of the people who have entered the hobby in the last several years. I also see an increase of people trying to make money as being the main incentive for keeping and breeding snakes
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www.Bluerosy.com

what'd you see on the water turtle side of things?
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

hmmmm, that sucks. here I had my hopes up to go to the Anaheim show out here in California in a couple weeks. I'm still gonna go, but I'm guessing the Daytona Show is a pretty good barometer of what to expect here. Afterall, Florida is the "Epicenter" of the reptile world I would think. Oh well, I'll give it a whirl and see how it compares...let you guys know.

A lot depends on what yoir looking for. If you were looking for something rare then Daytona was the best shot. But you never know who will show up to sell what? I'm looking forward to the Tampa show next month. There is always a good selection of choice animals from a more local group of breeders and I can never bring too much money there, lol.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

have you ever been to any of the so cal shows? And if so, how are they, "generally"?

no I haven't but they should be pretty good. California is not far behind Florida in the race for the crown in Herptdom. There are a lot of big named breeders in California, and I'm sure a lot of smaller less known but just as serious breeders too.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

>>John Lassiter was hoping to find someone with aboreal alligator lizards and did not find a single one. I was hoping to see some myself.
>>

I found some Sunday Rainer.....

All sold for $750 to $1200 each....

Plus...When you go to the show not looking at just the kingsnakes there are tons of neat stuff.....I am certainly starting to broaden my horizons a bit.......

Here are some pics of some great reptiles that were at the show.....

And the only things I picked up.....Along with a cool lens for the Cannon.....









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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

were those shinglebacks for sale or just display? If for sale, what were they going for? I've never seen them available before.
nice find on the alligator lizards. I've recently developed a hankering for some of the Elgaria from CA. Neat animals
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

>>were those shinglebacks for sale or just display? If for sale, what were they going for? I've never seen them available before.
>>nice find on the alligator lizards. I've recently developed a hankering for some of the Elgaria from CA. Neat animals

The Aspers (the all black ones) were on display but all the rest were for sale.....
10s of thousands of dollars.........I don't remember exactly.....I think something like $20K for a pair.......

Elgaria are neat, but these Mexican Arboreal Alligator lizards are far different animals....Not even in the same family.......

Hatchling Abronia look similar to Elgaria though......I wish they had the same price as Elgaria......LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Thanks for the observations Rainer. Finding the "new" or "rare" stuff at shows has gone by the wayside. I think the commercialization has fueled the Ball Python craze, not the other way around. You dont need to have known a single thing about reptiles to get into and breed those rocks. Its that commercialization that not only brought these "rock" guys into the hobby but it has driven out many of our founding fathers of modern herptoculture.
Now there are still the "locality nutz" in the hobby, but simply put there is NO MONEY in locality snakes either. If there werer you would see more at such shows. This is something that the locality guys here either have to accept or change. Personally I would LOVE to see a ALL WILD CAUGHT expo! Maybe those days are gone as well, but most breeders cant possibly make the $1K plus it costs to travel there and stay the weekend. If you are in BUSINESS you can write off all expenses, hobbyists cant do that. Margins are small enough and when you go to even local shows you see most tables losing money. I get a table at the Mass. Herp Societys show and havent made a SINGLE SALE in 3 YEARS!! I got nice stuff, decent prices, but I am there to educate and hopefully steer people away from the rocks....

>>"John Lassiter was hoping to find someone with aboreal alligator lizards and did not find a single one."

Some folks from France had several Abronia on their table but I really didn't even notice them hidden in the vegetation until I stopped to look at the Canary Island (Gallotia) lizards, also a rarity.
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Lindsay Pike
Urotopia Uromastyx

>>>>"John Lassiter was hoping to find someone with aboreal alligator lizards and did not find a single one."
>>
>> Some folks from France had several Abronia on their table but I really didn't even notice them hidden in the vegetation until I stopped to look at the Canary Island (Gallotia) lizards, also a rarity.
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I got to see them....
Jason Wagner had five Abronia Graminea as well....
The folks from France had graminea from the La Joya region....Not as nice but still interesting and rare........
Pics are in the above post.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com