Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ok so i mean i know i dont make money or anything from snakes or anything close or whatever but still i mean just today i saw alot of bumblebees for 500! just a few weeks ago they were 700? and then yellowbelly males for 45$ come on everyone! like it just doesnt make sense to me why everything is just dropping all of a sudden for no reason! sorry if this hurts someones feelings but i mean you should be proud of what you made and not give them away practically. why dont people just say hey just pay for shipping and ill send you a random snake.

Welcome to the economics of BPs. They drop like crazy every year around this time when all the new hatchlings flood the market at Shows and Expos. Then things start to level out.

In the end, if you want to sell an animal, you'll probably have to price it at what people will pay for it. And with eight gazillion Bumblebees on the market, I could easily see the bottom dropping out. *shrugs*
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.0 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

well ive been watching things drop for the past 2 weeks mainly. 45 for a male yellow belly. when 2 weeks ago they were a hundred. i mean the main thing im trying to say is how come people dont value what they made.

its not that people dont value what they made, its that they have to sell them at what people are willing to pay.
if a snake is worth 50 bucks, and you hold out for 6 months waiting to get 60 bucks, and in that 6 month span you dump 20 bucks in food into it you just lost 10 bucks!

you gotta learn when to move animals and at what price. it comes with experience and watching the ebbs and flows of the market.

het red axanthics were hot once, then some people couldnt give them away. now that some kick ass combos are coming out, their making a comeback. it all flows with what people want and what they want to pay. its up to you to feel your market and guess what its going to do next.
adam jeffery
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" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

i saw male yellow bellies that cheap 5 months ago, idk where youve been
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www.bamreptiles.webs.com
www.facebook.com/bamreptiles

I'm with you. I practically had to give away an adult breeder YB male. I think the more subtle (or perhaps "less visual" is a better term) morphs suffer a good bit when it comes to pricing. Sure a YB can make an ivory, but a Pastel YB can do the same thing, and looks better. And if you can pick up a Pastel YB for a couple hundred more, than why not?

when my snakes have babies its going to be hard for me to sell them anyways, im noone and people have already stated in this forum that if they had a whatever for 500 and a joe blow has it for 400 theyd rather go with the big name breeder. so im not knocking anyone im just saying its going to be hard for me to sell a normal much less a bumble bee. which i do actually plan on producing next year. and i will have some nice spider when i get my big female and get my spider up to size, theyll be ready for the season at the end of this year. so thats going to be a challenge for me to get rid of them. but i will have them and i will post pics when i have the babies. i dont care if i make a dime from them i just want to have the feeling of i made these guys.

The not-so-nice ones were a little cheaper, as they always are. Shows always seem to have lower prices so people can pay for their tables. I am actually happy with how Daytona turned out, no where as big as it used to be but still a lot of quality animals and yes... money was made there, most venders were very happy. For how the economy is, it was a GREAT show... try selling your house lately???? Know people, breed quality animals... and you will never go wrong. I have noticed that prices have pretty much stabilized lately, and yes... YB's and bumbles are lower but look how many are made, I am surprised by how well bumblebees have held their value, EVERYONE makes them, and they still sell, feel bad cause more people beat you to the punch, go try selling cars. While I was there two VERY HIGH end animals sold and the sticker price was over $10,000.... what they sold for, I dont know but that person was smiling from ear to ear and does not sell cheap. Want more? invest wisely, think out your breeding, years in advance, understand it is an ever changing market with lots of competition, and most of all, do it cause you love it ... end of story. Gee, sounds like every other "job" right now.
Sorry for the "venting" but compared to my real job... this is cake... and what a tasty cake it is. Not only that, think of why some people may sell short, know anyone that has been laid off lately and needs to cover a house payment? Most of us have real jobs and in some cases, their hours have been cut or they have been laid off. This country has been dealt a S**T sandwich and we all have to take a bite. We happen to be getting the better end of that sandwich. Ball pythons seem to be one of the only things left in the US with the "Made In America" label.

yea i guess. i understand but it just seems crazy that they just dropped so fast! it just doesn't make sense. but i guess everything and everything doesn't exactly make sense, no man im not mad at you for venting. i was actually wanting someone to say how they feel. im not mad at alot of people producing bumblebees it is just crazy how everything just DROPS. ive noticed lower end stuff cheaper, but ive also seen some stuff thats good looking for cheap. so i dont know. and i love all of my snakes i actually had ALL 13 of my bps outside today when it was a nice day. i hang out with every snake every day when i get off work or before i go to work. i love all of my snakes, and i just wish one day i could have some of their babies and possibly have made someones day by giving them or selling them a nice snake! ive had reptiles all my life and dont plan on getting rid of any of my snakes any time soon!

And you will, remember, you are paying MUCH less than we did, my first Pastel cost over $1000, best and funnest investment I ever made, but the person I bought it from paid probably twice that for his. Mine payed himself off many times over and I never sold a male pastel for over $200. It is all relative. You pay $100 for one, breed him to the nicest females you can, you will be able to advance, I made my collection from pewters, now I am getting even more through Axanthic combos among other things, Those pioneers at the top are doing it with higher end than I am, you will do it with yours. The economy has hit everybody but believe it or not, we are still selling animals and advancing, better than most occupations. Main thing is, it is a really fun thing to do, so for those that are in it only for the money, they will hate it just like they would hate any other job, cause it takes time, work and patience...

You know ive never thought about that. i got 1.3 pastels for 350, and thats still way less than you paid for one! so thats a good point ive never thought about that. thanks for kind of broadening my perspective a little bit. it is fun, i love watching my snakes grow and all that stuff! but again thanks for opening my eyes a little bit more.

The first female pastel I paid $1500. And she only produce once since I bought her.

Are you feeling better.

Eric

Just a few years ago Pieds were still selling for about 30k. The prices we see now on Balls is paled in comparison to what they used to be not so long ago!

It wasn't THAT recently that pieds were that high...
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You might be a ball python fanatic if you subconsciously convert the price of virtually everything in to units of piebald ball pythons

>>It wasn't THAT recently that pieds were that high...
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>>You might be a ball python fanatic if you subconsciously convert the price of virtually everything in to units of piebald ball pythons

I'm pretty sure they were going for $6-8K even as recent at 2004. I paid almost $4K for my yearling hets at the time. Bred them for the first time in 2005 and sold pieds for $4K which was the going price then. Good thing I hatched out 4 pieds in my first clutch and 4 more the next season.
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www.brandonosbornereptiles.com

it wasnt all of a sudden i bought a yellow belly female last year for 75 bucks. i was offered a 2010 bee male for 350 bucks 3 months ago. its about where you look. kingsnake is a funny place that for some reason sets the standards for price. but if you look around their are better prices and better animals at times else where. the average prices seem to flow here but if you know all the little nooks and crannies youll see that prices are all over the place.
but expect animals like bees and spiders yellow bellies and cinnies to drop hard this year and next. they are the animals that EVERYONE has and is producing with. if its not a double co-dom its gonna be right beside pastels in petshop tanks.
but honestly think about how it works.
a big time breeder spends 10 G's on a snake and makes 7 of them and sells them to other breeders for 9 G's each then next season 9 breeders are selling babies at 6G's a piece them 50 breeders sell theirs at 3 and so on and so on.
eventually the only ones making money on those snakes are the ones mass producing them to sell to the general public and not to other breeders. we are our own demise. thats why we breed for fun, to maybe break even or pay for the food to feed what we have. if your breeding to make money......get a warehouse!
if its common....find a pet store that will buy what you have.
bee's will be at the same point pastels are in the next 2 years
adam jeffery

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" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

what i find funny is that you think the selling price of a yb male has changed. I would bet those priced at $45 still didn't move. heck i know quite a few breeders that send out yb males in group lots with normal males for all the same price.

With that said, I only spent about 3 hrs at the show on saturday and didn't go on sunday. But I did enjoy drinking some beers with some great people.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Its all about perspective... You perceive a drop, but you're comparing two different sales outlets (show vs online ads) and both from your perspective as a buyer, not a seller. (I assume)

Justin
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J. Kobylka Reptiles
JKR 2010 Birthing Records

Warning: Snakes have been shown to cause death in laboratory rats.

i am a buyer, which should make me happy to find cheap snakes. but you get what you pay for. one day i hope to be able to produce some baby snakes. that would be amazing. ive never had pets that had babies so this would be the first time and im assuming that its a wonderful feeling to be able to bring life into the world!

This may come out the wrong way, but wouldn't limiting your production of some of these animals keep the market price higher if you wanted to make a better profit margin. Isn't that what the basics of supply and demand are about? When supply is low and demand is high, that equals a higher price, and then the opposite end of the spectrum is also true. When supply is high and outpaces demand then the market price lowers. I know other factors can come into play being that these are animals and should be treated very well as they are in our care. It's just my random thinking on this thread.
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1.0 red phase western hognose
1.0 100% het albino columbian
1.0 pastel columbian
0.1 hypo columbian
0.1 guyana
1.2 jcp
1.0 irian jaya
1.3 normal balls
2.2 100% het pied balls
1.0 ghost ball
0.1 100%het ghost ball
0.1 pastel ball
1.0 granite al burm
0.1 granite het al burm
0.1 albino burm
0.2 tiger retics
0.0.1 sulcata tortoise
1.0 potbelly pig (Oscar)
1.0 pug (Frank)
1.1 pit bull terriers (Marlboro & Coco)
1.0 house cat (Kitty)
0.1 wife who puts up with me

There's just a few problems though. Who decides what breeders get to produce what animals and how many? That kind of control would be difficult to pull off. And if we control that, who is going to buy offspring? If only breeders a,b, and c can produce pieds to keep market prices high, who is going to buy them? The reason most people buy expensive snakes is to breed them, so if the ability to breed isn't there, then the demand isn't there-then the price drops anyway.

It's the nature of the business for the prices to drop. I wish they'd drop a little slower, but on the other hand, it has allowed me, and many others I would imagine, to buy animals that they once thought would never be attainable.
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www.cafepress.com/jbartolettherps