Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was a big fan of the show in Daytona, and will not write it off as I still support it. I just could not see participating this year or last year, and I missed all my friends a lot but such is life...

What I did notice is I got myself into the frame of mind thinking I HAD to have a bunch of babies ready for this show every year. It causes a panic in me and other breeders and we sweat it out to see how many babies we can produce. I have even literally drove across the country with snakes pipping in thier eggs on the way.

So this year I changed things up a bit as I got back into music and considered not breeding anything this season, but that was not gonna happen so I took it all lightly. Now the kind of interesting part...

What I noticed was the snakes here that bred earliest in the season all produced NOTHING. Not one egg, not even slugs. They went through all the motions,,,, seemed to ovulate, bred multiple times, fed like pigs, and then nothing....they lost the weight and that was that.

I introduce all my Kings in March and had been getting double clutches on everything for years. This year I did not want several hundred babies so I intended to only introduce them once and all the clutches I got began hatching in August. My females are usually gravid again by then but they showed little interest in each other. I am not feeding them as heavily as I should which is probably a factor. This bring son another note...

I had a Gopher I did not intend to breed this season. She was on a minimal feeding schedule and was thin but I threw a male in with her several times while I cleaned his cage.. I paid little attention to her and then one day there was a perfect clutch just sitting there in the aspen.

I heard [once again] many stories of snakes getting huge, people expecting eggs and getting nothing... I am going to recall this season next year and probably choose to leave some males out of female cages until a few weeks later than usual to see if it suits them better. Rushing to have snakes for the big show is just to stressful... I will still be pairing snakes and watching for activity. You never know. I could see clutches in October...

Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

Tom, very interesting observations. I did the big push this year trying to get babies for a show in early July. I brumated earlier and for only eight weeks as opposed to the solid three months I ususally do. I put my animals in brumation late November and took my animals out of brumation in January as opposed to Mid February. I had babies less than a week old for the show in July, but I noticed my fertility was lower than usual in general. This upcoming season I am going back to my old method/timeframe and not stressing about hatchling dates. I will plan to attend an upcoming show based on my hatchling schedule, not vice versa. I understand the panic of making a show date and it is NOT a fun situation!!

You know it certainly isnt the worst idea to hold onto babies til they get some size on them anyway. For me, living in Texas, the risk of booking everything so far in advance and "hoping" you do OK is just not an option. The show expects the table paid way in advance and a FL sales permit also averages about 90 days wait...
I plan on trying some different things for the rest of this season [budget permitting].
Tom
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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

I say we dump that show and start going to Tinley park, Chicago show.
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www.Bluerosy.com

..anyone else hear the Daytona show may be moving anyway?
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

..anyone else hear the Daytona show may be moving anyway?

THAt would be great news. It would really help that show to start again in another venue. i HOPE THEY MOVE IT BACK TO THE rADDISSON IN ORLANDO
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www.Bluerosy.com

.
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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

I definately liked it better in Orando! But then that was a long time ago before the Pet Rocks took over, lol.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Yeah, the "pet rocks with eyes" would still be on every other table there too, but I really DID like the layout of the huge rooms at the Twin Towers to be honest!!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

If you dump a show like Daytona, you may lose potential "after show" customers who see your animals but may not have the $$ to buy at that moment. Its almost catch 22 IMO for the larger better known breeders. I am sure Daytona is still one of the premier show events and more folks will see your stuff than any other show would afford. I heard Tinley is a good show. I have a friend who is big into ball pythons and he swears he will go to Tinley just to keep advertising his animals and keep his name out there regardless of how sales were the past show. Just good business in a way. I would assume the same with doing Daytona. Unless it completely flops, its still a means to get your name and animals out there.

I don't care what anyone says about the Daytona show this year.....

It may have been bad for Kingsnake breeders but it had some very rare animals and was one of my favorite Daytona shows
......

If you take off the blinders and get away from the kingsnake tunnel vision you will see that this show will not shut down or go away.......

Maybe someone should start an "all colubrid" show???????
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I never said it will go away. It is riding on it own curtails of 10 years ago.

It should be called the Ball Python show and not the colubrid show.
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www.Bluerosy.com

>>I never said it will go away. It is riding on it own curtails of 10 years ago.
>>
>>It should be called the Ball Python show and not the colubrid show.

I said.....We should have an all colubrid show....
We already have a Ball python, boa & leo show.......LOL

Check out my post down in the other thread.....I did find the Abronia (Mexican Arboreal Alligator Lizards) on Sunday after you took off.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

A all colubrid show could really get interest going in the right direction. Bigger dealers could curtail, food animals and hard goods wouldnt suffer significantly. Seems to me it might bring back some of the old feel....no?

It appears the new crop of herpers these days are looking for "cool pet snakes" and not for specific colubrids/breeding projects/locality animals that the older herpers were after back in the day 10 plus years ago. If you make a colubrid only show, you may get a bunch of gawkers looking around and not buying anything all the while asking you if you know of anyone selling ball pythons or boas at the show!!! Lets face it, colubrids from a general pet perspective are not that hot nowadays regardless of color, morph, etc. IMHO. Its a whole new ball game. Back 35 plus years ago when I first got into snakes, you could find boas and certain pythons in pet shops fairly easily. However, finding a cal king, yellow rat, or any other species I read about and oogled in herp books was impossible. Being a city boy from New Orleans, I was as interested reading about the desert, mountain, swamp habitats here in NA these colubrids were found as much as the jungles and habitats in Africa, SA, etc. that the boas and pythons were found. They were ALL foreign,unique, and exotic to me. Back then, non-native NA colubrids were like hens teeth to find in local pet stores. If you did find one, they were usually the same price or even more expensive than the boas and pythons.

Well it wont get better by NOT doing anything. I know I would travel further as a seller if I knew it was a "special" show, and I think the same way as a buyer too. I'm in Mass, the NH show doesnt do too well because its so far for people to come compared to say the White Plains show. So if I would drive to White Plains for a "regular" show I would probably go to Pennsylvania for a "colubrid only" show. Further, a centralized show like Chicago could bring in even more colubrid guys. While its a chance you take making a "non-boid" show, I think its uniqueness, comraderie, etc could bring back that old Orlando feeling.....

I agree to a point Jeff. It may foster more of the colubrid herpers going out to that particular type of show because they may have a better chance filling those project gaps, finding those hard to locate localities, etc. Still, most of the newbie herpers that go the recent shows that buy colubrids usually start out with a ball python or boa and develop a true interest in snakes. They appear to be looking to diversify and find something more than a rock with eyes LOL!! But, I agree that you wont know til its tried for sure. I would probably make the trip within reasonable distance if I KNEW there would be a great assortment of colubrids, and not just corns and florida kings. Man, its getting harder and harder to find stuff that was relatively easy to find with great selection like mexmex and alternas, even nice thayeri. Forget about most of the asian colubrids except maybe an albino radiated rat or two.

Here's they way I see it. BP have been on a hot streak as of lately well good things always come to an end. FL has discontinued letting people keep the larger snakes, which is good for us colubred keepers/breeders. ( Don't get me wrong bad for the overall snakes/reptiles hobby) So as more states follow FL ridiculous law more people are going to be inclined to purchase the colubreds.

I personally keep all colubreds always have always will. I won't even take BP in on trade. I am sure there are many out there like me that took a short hiatus from keeping snakes. I am sure an all colubred show would draw a great crowd it would take a few years to catch on just like anything else. I have to agree with Rainer that Orlando was a better show. I went for 3 years there and took my time off and have been to Daytona twice in the past 3 years and was just not that upset by not making it this year.

Why not make Charlotte,NC ( good snake laws too) a all colubred show? Probably the same distance for many that traveled to Daytona. I would say KY or Tenn. I just don't see a heavy enough populated area to get a good show.( Hmm...Memphis, Nashville maybe)

Thanks for letting me ramble

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Jimmy Tintle

Could it be that the ease of selling over the internet has put a dent in the big shows? I know I said this before but when you look at the price of gas, the tickets for the family, food and drinks, and a hotel stay for many. Well, 50 bucks for shipping doesn't sound so bad! Another thing to consider is money! I had to fork up 400 for my son's homeschool cirriculum just as the Daytona show is going on. People have spent lot's of money on vacations and are hurting even if they do still have a job,(Thanks Obama). I spent about 2 grand last year on snakes with my tax return. That's when I have money to spend every year. Not at the end of Summer. So again I'll probably pick up some cool stuff in Jan or Feb like I did before.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

And are all definite factors of how these shows are affected.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

............the Daytona International "BALL PYTHON MARATHON Breeders Expo"..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Now you're talking. I'll look for you there.
Jeff
www.4lakessnakes

is that I really dont produce enough babies to warrant travel costs and stuff for a larger show. I could do shows in Houston, TX, Pensacola, FL, even parts of Alabama pretty easily, but still would require at least one overnight stay at a local hotel. Not really feasible with only 25-35 babies because you know all wont sell these days. Based on the low number of babies I produce, I am pretty much stuck doing local shows I can get to and from everday. Hopefully next season will be different. The other thing I tend to do is wholesale my remaining babies at the show I attend. Not next year. Either the wholesale buyer meets my price, or what doesnt sell comes home and puts on some size til the next available show I can do.

So why don't they push the show back a month until September? I know Ray Busby used to have an IRBA show in Arizona in early August and no one had snakes....he just didn't get it.

I don't bring my snakes out of brumation until March and then breed in May. My clutches don't even start to hatch until Aug/Sept. And they all go into brumation the first part of November.

Kerby...
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"So why don't they push the show back a month until September?"

I have ALWAYS thought that would be far better for everyone as far as having more hatchlings available, but I guess it has to do with the majority of folks having time off from work with summer vacations, and the availability of the Ocean Center itself, etc..

It sure would have more snakes available if it were a month later.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

My kid has her first day of school on the Monday that follows the Expo. It's no fun barreling home in your car loaded with snakes for an all night drive.
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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

BINGO!! My thoughts exactly. It seems the summer shows are too early, and the late fall/early winter shows are too late to afford good selection of babies. I am sure venue availability has something to do with the situation, but I never see any decent shows advertised in September/October that I am aware of. A mid to late September show locally for me would be awesome!!

Repticon puts on a late Sept. show here in Tampa. I guess we just luck out. ( I think it the 18 th and 19th this year.
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Jimmy Tintle

I have to admit I await the Tampa show every year. Besides being a closer drive for me I just like it better. By the way, it's the 25th and 26th this year.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Wouldnt it be Great to sell all you brought to the show,Quality beats quantity and the major cornsnake breeders dont even bring corns to the shows anymore ,dont get me wrong some 6 table venders offer some "CoolStuff" amuninxt the mass of deli cups.