Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here is a quick survey if anyone is interested in taking.
Survey

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Jimmy Tintle

Jeff, Thanks I tweaked it a little. I am open to working with anyone on this. It just seems like we should be proactive and gathering data now we can get a good idea. I kinda agree that NY and Chi-towm should be the most popular.
Thanks for the spelling issue it was a bit late in writing.
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Jimmy Tintle

Common folk Would miss the show. waiting for a Reptile Show, not knowing wtf is a colubrid or non boid? just a thought I dont mean to sound loud..........."Ya got any turtles"

I would have to agree. The key IMO would be SELECTION. Even the colubrid breeders lack selection for the most part. They either specialize in what they like, or what appears to be the most profitable to produce. EVERY decent corn breeder has TONs of various morphs, etc. Same with the king guys. Then as you stated, they have the guys next to them that they sold to competing alongside. Same corns, same kings. Maybe not as many morphs, but you get the idea. You rarely see anything like mountain kings, mexicana complex kings, or asian colubrids WELL represented at any given show. Why is that? IMO its because the colubrid guys sold out to the market and do not produce picky babies, poor sellers, etc. IMO I would think a well organized swap meet would be better attended by those in the know than a specialized show.

Kind of a viscious circle. I didn't go with Asian colubrids because they're not as widely available so I didn't have as many choices of breeder, species, etc. I mean yeah, some old world rats but that's about it...
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

I agree with you Kevin and great point. But why not have a show that was geared just to the L.p.p or Mex mex or Greeri or Ruthveni? How about the hogs or SA hogs and the Asian ratsnakes? But how is one to be politically correct and say "oh, you have corns so you are not welcome" As most of us probably started with either a backyard animal or a show bought corn. Why cant we offer to the newbees the corns and still have a wonderful show for the rest of us specific locality or subspecies breeders?
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Jimmy Tintle

Jimmy, I think the idea and concept is awesome. However, I am not sure how easy it would be to get the breeders who do work with those animals to do an out of town show. Think about it. Most of the better known colubrid guys who are geared towards traveling and doing shows of the caliber of Daytona or Tinley are specialized based on their likes in the species they deal with, or sell what makes money. Therefore, lack of diversity for the most part. Getting a group as diverse and eclectic together to have all those wonderful animals represented would be almost impossible IMO. The breeder in Arizona with a clutch or two of tricolored or Mad. Hogs is not going to travel to TN. They are going to do their local show at best, if they even do any shows at all. I just dont see mid to small sized breeders who consider doing out of town shows bringing the diversity of days of old. Finding one vendor who sold corns, kings, pines, mexicana species, and even some cool ratsnake species was not a rarity 10-15 years ago. I am talking about quality representatives of those species with respect to the latest morphs, patterns, locality etc. Not a bunch of brokered animals that are so so or questionable regarding purity. When these guys lost market, they appeared to have moved out of those species as well. Some folks cant afford to propagate everything based on cost and space, and some species go to the wayside. When the market drops, thats when quality and overall availability begin to suffer IMO.

Chris, I was a common folk once, and my first snake was a colubrid and I also knew the difference between the 2 when I purchased my first corn. I think people should do their own research before impulse buying a snake. I did! I am not saying that would be the name of the show but it would be the basis of the show.

I think the colubrids have more to offer than BP or other boids and I am trying to get a feel as to how many others actually feel the same way. How many times has someone gone to a show to find a specific animal or species and to only find a bunch of BP and other boids?
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Jimmy Tintle

If your trying to get a feel for what people like, I think you'll get a biased poll here, lol.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

LOL!!,..pretty much!.......

I'm sure the results would be drastically different over on the Ball Python/Boa forums. This is just a "wild guess" of course

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Though not a boa/python person myself, I'd find it just as boring to see the exact same colubrids at every other table.
You can't blame it all on the boas and pythons.
The Daytona show, and others I suspect, have become a bit more of an "entertainment" for the locals who bring families to simply look and ogle over what they normally do not see.
I think the U.S. "market" is quite saturated with colubrids as it is with boas, etc.
I also suspect things are mirrored overseas. I did not see nearly as many wholesalers this year from Japan or Europe as I once did.
Perhaps we're moving away from the "mega-shows" that people (buyers and sellers) are now unwilling to drop tons of $$ to attend in leiu of smaller, more localized ones that might favor the smaller breeders. We have equated shows with wholesale prices but what sane person drives 100 miles or more to pay an entrance fee, parking, etc. to buy a kingsnake? All of a sudden, pet shop prices don't look as bad.
Too many shows at the same spots may not be good either?
Sell everyone a cornsnake, show 'em how to keep and breed it and next season they're at the table next to you...selling snakes, ya know?
Can't expect anything different really.
ahh well...Off to the day job...

:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

Mark, great point and thanks. I started in this hobby going to shows to learn from the more advanced and still do to this day as everything changes overtime. There are a lot of us that kept animals yrs back and just got back into it because we enjoyed it. Now I go to show and learn and you have a hard time finding a older herper that could tell stories for hours. Trade secrets and so on.

"Sell everyone a cornsnake, show 'em how to keep and breed it and next season they're at the table next to you...selling snakes, ya know?
Can't expect anything different really."

Is this a hobby or just for profit? Take stamp collecting, people did it for yrs had swap meets, traded them like baseball cards. Then it became an investment for profit and what happened in the early '80's a company decided to print the whole sale price in a book and personal collections dropped by 1/3 to 2/3 their value because the dealers were not going to pay that book value for them. Now where is the hobby. No new stamp collectors.

I am not in this hobby to make money I enjoy what I have in my collection and hope to have the nicest collect possible no matter what the investment I have in to it. If I learn from it and gives me peace and quiet for a few hours a week, it is worth every dollar spent.
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Jimmy Tintle

Too many shows, good point. I remember when CA had only one big show per year, the Del Mar show. Now it seems there are several big shows per year in several states. Most people seem to go to shows just to window shop.
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www.hcu-tx.org/

...seriously. I like corns, and boids, but there is nothing I will pass by quicker than a table full of hatchling corn morphs.

>>...seriously. I like corns, and boids, but there is nothing I will pass by quicker than a table full of hatchling corn morphs.

You got that right Nick.....
I passed up every corn and boa table at the show.....
I may have looked at 5 Ball Pythons out of the 10,000 there......

I could not believe there weren't any zonata there at all.....Rather disappointing in my opinion......

If a table was full of Thayeri, Mex Mex, Greeri, Alterna, Ruthveni, Zonata and Pyromelana I would have spent most of the day at that table......

But I do have other favorites.....A nice Splendida, Holbrooki or Calking always catches my eye......And sometimes Floridana do too....lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I couldn't agree with you guys more. I went to a show looking for L.p.knoblochi's and there was one table that had them and only 2 of them. Great Selection!LOL

John, the funny thing is it was Dennis Thomas's table and I wound up buying a L.p.pyro.
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Jimmy Tintle

>>I couldn't agree with you guys more. I went to a show looking for L.p.knoblochi's and there was one table that had them and only 2 of them. Great Selection!LOL

I saw only one young pair of Knoblochi and a single adult male in Daytona.......I need an adult female.........

I enjoy the challenge of getting mexican and montane snakes to reproduce......Not to mention their variability.......

I think common kings are for beginners......LOL
So are corns, boas and pythons.........But I still like all reptiles regardless of their ease or lack of in captivity.....

But the ease of breeding common kings attracts many buyers......and the difficulty factor with montane and mexican kings turns some buyers away......only the experienced keeper likes them........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Dennis and I are good friends. A lot of my stock I got from him. My kids and I helped load his moving van when he left St.Pete. Heck, I'd even trade my carpentry work for snakes! I still call him from time to time and he's one of the good guys in the biz.
For years I'd get my kids to "go get the pick of the litters" before anyone else at the shows. I always got top line knobs. Still have a few but keeping them private these days....along with some others...
John, rest assured the pyro you got from me is D.T. lineage...
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

>>Dennis and I are good friends. A lot of my stock I got from him. My kids and I helped load his moving van when he left St.Pete. Heck, I'd even trade my carpentry work for snakes! I still call him from time to time and he's one of the good guys in the biz.
>>For years I'd get my kids to "go get the pick of the litters" before anyone else at the shows. I always got top line knobs. Still have a few but keeping them private these days....along with some others...
>>John, rest assured the pyro you got from me is D.T. lineage...

Dennis told me the same story about you guys helping them move....LOL
He said that the pyro I got from you was probably from some that you got from him....No wonder they make such a nice pair.....

Thanks Mark......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

odd question:
You're not the John Lassiter at Pixar are you?
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

>>odd question:
>>You're not the John Lassiter at Pixar are you?
>>-----

I freakin wish.....
The Pixar guy spells his last name Lasseter....

But Us Lassiters are all from the same place in the UK and Ireland.........We just spell it different because the guy on the NY dock spelled it different......LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

gotcha. And yeah, I'm sure he's loaded given Pixar's track record. It'd be nice to be loaded
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

A lot of people love Corns! Yeah they are considered beginners snakes but I still like them. Here's some from my home town.

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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Personally I also think breeders now sell too much of the same old balls, imperator boas, and corns. That's why I love Lampropeltis genus; there's such variety in terms of color, care, size, and temperament. And that's not even getting into morphs...

crocacutus

I have had about 30 people fill out the Survey so far and I am pretty astonished with some of the results. No where near enough data yet, but almost 100% of the people that filled out the survey chose "Locality Animals" as a reason to be enthused to go. Also, 86.9% of the people chose they have had experience with snakes/reptiles for 10 plus yrs.

Thanks for the participation I will keep you all updated on some of the results. If anyone has any websites the would like to post this survey on please feel free to contact me and I will send the links over to you or will post them myself.

Again, Thanks everyone and send this Survey along to anyone you might like to fill it out. The more data I receive the better the results will be. If you have any thoughts feel free to contact me with them or post on this thread.

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Jimmy Tintle

some of that's the survey though. I have to choose one, and none of the others where nearly right. I'd really go for the chance to see species I usually don't. Locality is usually not a huge concern for me but it was the closest to true response available.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

I guess I should have entered in a natural selection for the ones that look for a natural species. Did I get your point? Thanks for the input.
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Jimmy Tintle

Polls can be misleading in that you have to pick from what is offered so many times you pick the better of the choices but it would not be your true pick. Political pollers use this trick to manipulate the outcomes. Not that this one was, I'm just making the observation.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

You know a big part of me would really like to see such a show simply to make the LOCALITY point...the locality NUTZ collect their own, trade amongst themselves, and even if such a show went off they would be under-represented and out sold. They are over-represented here, but this is why this forum doesnt represent the market. So for anyone to take that kind of data seriously....you are talking about the 30 most zealot locality NUTZ in the country, no way do they either agree on anything or are allowed in the same state never mind the same venue...LMAO. Fire, Brimstone, and Locality NUTZ!

I totally agree, this forum represents but a small pi$$ drop in an olympic sized swimming pool as far as the entire interested hobby.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

There is one thing about this forum, it seems to have some of the most experienced herpers ( you guys know who you are) out there and for that I am thankful for your participation. Most everyone that took the survey from here had 10 plus years experience and that shows somw value even though it may be one sided.
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Jimmy Tintle

I agree that many shows are Ball Python and Red-Tailed Boa heavy, but what about the other boas? I work with Rainbow and Ground Boas, and don't see them on a whole lot of tables. I am always on the lookout for them at shows, and am delighted when a table actually has them.

There are many other not so common boas at shows as well.

Don't forget about all those dang Leopard Geckos and Crested Geckos filling up the tables at shows too.... I think they are awesome, but will you be thinking of restricting those as well?

I don't really understand why you may want a colubrid-only show, and I probably would not go if there was such a restriction.

I don't want this to come off as aggressive... it's hard to convey emphasis or tone of voice in text.

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Aubrey Ross

©
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Aubrey, Great pics BTW. Hey no agression taken, here is my issue on the whole matter. If I was looking for a certain species of colubrid why not go to a show that is specific in colubrids? Wouldn't you think that an all colubrid show would bring some of the smaller Zonata breeders out or maybe more L.p.knoblochi breeders out. Maybe let's even take a Longnose breeder. Hey I have wanted a pair of Longnose and do not feel the best IMO with buying an animal from a wholesaler. Internet buying is great but their is nothing better than seeing and holding that snake and saying thats mine!

I just am getting a feel to see if there are people willing to go to an Non-Boid or all colubrid show. I am not saying this needs to be as big as Daytona. Just a bunch of colubrid breeders and buyers getting together for a weekend to swap, trade, buy, sell, and talk about our hobby and the advancements that it has or will make in the future. Oh, and some beer drinking too.LOL
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Jimmy Tintle

Being able to "see and hold" a snake before you buy it has to be the most ridiculous and juvenile aspect of shows. The best breeders and keepers in the country advertise here, anyone who doesnt is pretty foolish considering the traffic stats. Part of the reason I breed what I do not more common(cheaper)animals is because I simply cant stand the damn CHEAP SKATES that simply dont care that my price is the lowest in the COUNTRY, they dont feel right about buying it unless they can "---insert word---" me down another $5 for their "sweat equity".
There are some breeders who simply sell at market value, there are others that dump their stock quickly because they are into seeing the heads emerge but not into feeding all their babies. Then there those of us who set the market, who arent afraid to rail in the face of criticizm. I think I may have been the last holdover selling on reputation alone, NO PICS. Never mind in hand, I think too many snakes are misrepresented in PICS online now and buying by reputation deserves more time in the sun. Sure some of the newbies can produce nice stuff, and a clock is right twice a day even if broken. On a 1-10 scale I would much prefer a "8" from a known breeder than a "9" from a wholesaler/newby. Recently I bought a pr of mole kings from Bob Assetto who may be a worse pic taker than me! The snakes were rare, and bought em sight unseen. I was so pleasantly rewarded I now sing his praises...something I might not have done had I actually seen the snakes! I want others to think about that for a few minutes.....

"Being able to "see and hold" a snake before you buy it has to be the most ridiculous and juvenile aspect of shows"

Jeff, there is absolutely NOTHING "wrong" or "juvenile" about seeing and holding a prospective snake you want to keep for many years!,..simple as that!........don't know where on earth you came up with that one.

I would much rather see a snake, or group of snakes in person that I am getting. Now when that isn't an option at all, I would of course seek other options.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Also a baby snake hasn't had time to be adversely affected by the actions of anyone really. So whether you get it from a pro or a novice you have the same chance of success. A pro may have better bloodlines or genetic variation but if you like what your eyes see then it's a good buy. Unless the guy have way cooked the things in the car on the way to the show or something?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

where is that preview button?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

either way ...ding! there done. stick a fork in me! In 15 min drive i had a wholesale order box of colubrids to deliver 5 miles away and had some red milks on top in the box in the camper of my pick up Direct Sun zapped em for only a short period and they didnt die saved em by immediatly soaking them on arrival and discounted them to the reptile worker who brought em back YEAH and bred em

That's right Jorge, For the most part a baby snake is basically a clean, fresh slate, and all up to the buyer as to how well it usually , and I like it that way myself.

Now, unless I know the seller pretty well personally, I am always a bit leery on buying older snakes from just anyone that you cannot tell the age of whatsoever, or they "say" it is a very successful breeder.

That is certainly NOT to say that there aren't tons of perfectly good adult breeders offered, because there definitely are, and I have sold lots of great young breeder adults too that just don't fit into any more future breeding plans. As many of us know, things change over time, and different plans can take center-stage rather quickly sometimes. I certainly don't like making a habit of feeding lots of rodents to something that isn't going to be used for some sort of future return.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"and all up to the buyer as to how well it usually.........

meant to type turns out after "usually"!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

np.

Doug, this is not a puppy you are buying. You dont have to hold it and squeeze it and love it like Lenny... To me they are and will be specimens. If you are REALLY into albino corn snakes sure, there are a million at any show so pick over what you will. If you are into ROCKS(Ball pythons!)you want to get the most colorful ROCKS you can I guess. I dont keep things that are that common for the most part. What came first the chicken or the egg? Do I not like them because they are common or are do I not like the customer that kicks the tires on $5 snakes?

"Doug, this is not a puppy you are buying. You dont have to hold it and squeeze it and love it like Lenny"

that is yet another reason I want to "hold it and squeeze it" Jeff, so I can double-check the sex it is labeled as...LOL!!

I don't care who I buy it from, I will always sex it myself too just to make double sure before I spend a few years raising it to breed.

Not to mention feel down the body for kinks or other imperfections. Why the hell would anyone "rather" buy one sight unseen?, if you don't have to,or have the option?

Man, I am WAAAAY to choosy as it is, and have extremely high personal standards as to exactly what I want or don't want. I like choosing what I am getting, not depend on some dude I don't know to drop whatever the heck he wants to send me in a box and that is that. Nope!, not if I have the choice of seeing it.

Some stuff it really doesn't matter if it is butt-ugly, or average or whatever, but some stuff certainly does matter to me.

If a dude called me and said he had a pair of Bimini dwarf boas, I would expect to get whatever the hell two he wanted to send me, and consider myself fortunate, but if it is something even reasonably common, I want to choose the very one(s) I am getting if at ALL possible...period!

I have a very good eye for certain stuff, so I am going to use my eyes to my advantage every time if I can,.......... that's just the way it is.

This is me at a snake show Jeff!..LOL!

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

That's me too Doug! I have purchased a lot of my snakes over the internet mainly cause I don't usually have the cash at showtimes. But when I do get to attend a show, I make two rounds down each Isle before I even begin to narrow down the possibilities. Then Once I'm prett sure on what I want then begins the one by one delicup examination! Sometimes the Vendors get a bit annoyed by my sifting and shuffling but I want the best ones he's got on that table, lol. Get me a hat like that too!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

"Sometimes the Vendors get a bit annoyed by my sifting and shuffling but I want the best ones he's got on that table, lol. Get me a hat like that too!"

HAHAHAAA!!, I know what ya mean Jorge!, I have been known to shuffle them back and forth many times trying to choose JUST the right one!.

Heck, even when I got those splendida at the recent May Repticon show, I did just that too!. I eye-balled them back and forth several times until I finally chose just the right one's for my personal taste..LOL!

I love watching people do it at my table as well really. It tells me they are very discerning, and are looking for the nicest one they can possibly get, and why the heck not!??

You should have seen me sift through the cups when I bought my original anery Honduran for $800 bucks and a female het from Brian Barczyk(BHB) many years ago..LOL!

After looking at all the one's on the table, I asked him if he had any more. Then he reached under and pulled out a couple more, and THEN I saw the one that was right on the money!. The cleanest, lightest, most even-banded male he had!!

Today, as an old adult, he is one of the nicest adult anery's I or anyone else could ever hope to see, and he is even far better looking than many adult ghosts are.

Anyway Jorge, here's to everyone diligently searching through deli cups to get exactly what they want when possible at shows!

Yeah, I gotta get me a Sherlock Holmes hat too for table browsing next time..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

That's like what I do too! If I'm going to be cleaning and feeding this animal for years I want the nicest one I can find! When you try to keep a small collection you want to be VERY selective of who gets a spot!

Exactly!

I do the same thing Inspector Mong and Jorge does. You should see me when I am looking thru deli cups of northern pines at my friend John Meltzer's table in recent years in Daytona. Everything else is tuned out. LOL!

I did the same thing this year in Daytona, looking thru stacks of deli cups to find the perfect colored Western hognose at John Schmitt's table. Probably 20-30 minutes at least of looking at each hog in each deli cup, holding it up to the light, examining each one till I narrowed it down to the one I felt that was " perfect " specimen, and I could not be happier.

Like you said, if you are going to be making a decision to care for and raise the animal up for the entirety of its' life, you want to make sure that you picked the right one. That is why being able to pick thru and see all the choices of animals available at a show is such a better scenario.
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Genesis 1:1

I cant remember ever going to a show where there were more than 4 tables in the whole show I was interested in...and that was years ago. Nowadays its so depressing to go to shows and not finding even a single table with what I find interesting enough to actually buy anything. Shows and collections are sooooo homogenized, good on you ROCK and corn guys but for a milkhead like me it really sucks.

.

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

You guys are hilarious. At least I know I'm not the only one pissing off all the sales people and breeders when I pick through each and every item available before making a selection. Whether it's a snake, a fish, a bird, a plant, or a tattoo -- I want to make sure I get the RIGHT one, not just any old one.

I *have* purchased snakes sight unseen, and I am doing so again this year. But in general, I MUCH prefer to inspect ANY possible purchases before I commit to them. Even if I did consider my animal to be just a specimen -- which I don't -- I would want to have the BEST possible specimens in my collection.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Right! especially when your not a kid anymore that just HAS to buy everything he likes/sees! LOL.

You have to come to grips with the fact that you just can't keep them all and have a life. I can't tell you I've never bought an animal just because.... But I have found it helpful to look at the animal and also ask myself "Do I like this enough to clean it's stinky cage 400 to 500 times at least?" Helps me walk past some nice animals. LOL

Pure Rubber Boa. No Het,co Dom,recessive,white sided, 3 way crossed super paint job! LOL Just a plain old non locale Generic rewarding sweet little animal I hope to enjoy for years even if no one else is impressed!

And a very pretty just plain old rubber boa it is, too.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

np

Rubber boas are one of those "I really love 'em but probably won't keep 'em" snakes. I've heard they like it relatively cool, and I don't have an easy way to manage that in my snake room (since it's got things like retics and a boa and some painted rocks as well as kings).
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

Bob I'm not an expert in Rubber Boas but I never saw one with that green color. Very pretty indeed! I've always been scared to get one. I just don't know enough about them.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Thanks Fish.I'm a relative novice with them so I couldn't be more helpful. I do keep a small group together communally. They seem to be a lot like the mountain Kings, where they stop eating early and start late. I understand there have been wild tagged ones that live in excess of 30 years! Rubberboa.com is a great site to check on them.I like this guys YouTube vid on them. Easy going drummer type.

Absolutely!,.....that is exactly how I and the other's see it too.

I am actually proud of my being extremely choosy, and I think it certainly reflects in my choice breeder stock, and the snakes they produce that I in turn sell to people.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)

All these things are easy to find on most any table at any show. If I was into this stuff I'd likely be into shows more.
The names can be found in any children's book, LMAO!
The anthropomorphism, priceless! I got a picture in my head of you reading bedtime stories to your snakes...

>>0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
>>2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
>>1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
>>1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
>>0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
>>2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
>>
>>All these things are easy to find on most any table at any show. If I was into this stuff I'd likely be into shows more.
>>The names can be found in any children's book, LMAO!
>>The anthropomorphism, priceless! I got a picture in my head of you reading bedtime stories to your snakes...

??

To which anthropomorphism are you referring? Since some of those names are in ancient and nearly dead languages, I seriously doubt they could be "found in any children's book".....
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Don't let it "Rattle " you LOL.

I guess everybody here is sometimes coming from different perspectives. I have seen MANY longterm keepers grow very fond of certain animals in their care.

I have NEVER had it happen to me, but to each his own.

I am getting tired of this guy lying around watching watching animal planet!

LOL! Love the photo!

I'm just amused by Jeff's attempt at trolling. Especially since several of those "anthropomorphic" names actually mean "snake" or "snake-like" in their respective languages.

Herpetomorphic, maybe?
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Anthropomorphism is giving human qualities to non humans....like NAMES. Snakes dont call each other "snake" in any language. Troll? When they do you let me know. I thought it would be better to picture you reading childrens books to your captives than reciting incantations over a cauldron in front of them. Ce la Vi....

>>Ce la Vi....

Geez, Jeff, if you're going to pretend to be educated, at least try to spell the words correctly: C'est la Vie.

As for snakes not "calling each other snake" -- they don't call each other "Honduran milksnake" or "Lampropeltis" either. Those are all labels we apply to them artificially, for our own convenience. The label "Chanir" (which means "snake-like" in the dialect of ancient Mayan that was spoken in Honduras, btw), for instance, is simply an amusing (for my amusement) and more convenient label than "hypomelanistic tangerine Honduran milksnake".

Please stop trolling, Jeff. It just makes you look even sillier than usual.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

I have a great time ribbing you because you do whatever you can to spin a topic when all you would have to say(to me or anyone else)is "hey, you are right". You know it, I know it, everyone knows and laughs about it. Why not end the thread instead of spinning and blaming someone else for bad spelling in FRENCH? Just sayin.....

Jeff, you really oughtta warn people before you post such odoriferous B.S.....but keep right on shoveling, if that's what floats yer boat...

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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Coming from you that's funny!
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

Very cool photo Bob... mine is wondering about the couch as I type this but she's watching "House".

And Doc, please let him rattle on all by himself... it's not worth a moment of your time.

Gerry

As it happens, one of my favorite herp breeders (Dave Colling) actually owns a snake named Fluffy.

I don't know how much he paid for it, but when Brian Sharp was advertising that snake for sale he had it priced at $15,000. Dave still sells female offspring from that snake at $1200 and up.

If the name is good enough for Dave, it oughtta be good enough for anyone else. And I'm not even gonna mention his other snakes named things like Minnie, Dumbo, and Elvis! ;-D
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Here's Bob Clark's "Fluffy"

~Doug
Fluffy

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

...well, anyway she is HUUUUUGE!!!..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

That didn't show up. Here ya go:

And here's Dave Colling's Fluffy:

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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

That piebald BRB is awesome!!

I used to have some really nice Rainbow's from "Lamar's" very orange bloodline!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I love the high orange best myself.

Dave's Fluffy is very interesting, but it has not yet been proven genetic. I personally suspect that it is suffering from immune-mediate vitiligo -- but nobody knows at this point!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Yeah, who knows there, but it would be pretty neat if it does turn out to be an inheritable trait for the hobby to enjoy.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Man, being able to see and hold a snake is the ONLY reason I go to shows besides breeder direct prices. Even with known breeders its still nice to see everything available and make a visual choice. That type of transaction can almost never happen over the internet IMO. NO ONE is going to send you pics of all their babies for you to chose from unless its a group clutch shot or something. The example of Bob and the mole kings is a horrible one. Aside from Bob being well known and reputable, its not like there are tons of mole kings to chose from out in the market. So, based on the lack of volume, anyone interested in moles would scoop them up sight unseen from a reputable breeder, and even be happy with doggy looking ones.

.
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I have purchased from reputable breeders from the internet and then wished I hadn't. Though most have been happy transactions, I still like seeing the entire clutch and getting to pick the best of what they have available. My problem is I never have money for the shows.

Oh Jeff it's a good thing you don't depend on pics for your sales!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Yeah. I don't get how wanting to see what I'm getting is a bad thing.
Now, I understand a breeder not taking individual pics of every 15 dollar cornsnake yeah, but if I'm buying something high end, I want to see what I'm dropping 500 bucks on!
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

Shows are great for that $15 corn snake or if you want to buy something common but have to choose from 100 babies. And this is why I dont keep anything to sell at $15 or common enough to have 100 of.....

I would certainly go to an all colubrid show but to be honest I would not travel a great distance. I would even vend at the show but again only if it was not too far way. I also would probably not pay more than about $100 for a table. But this is actually how I feel about pretty much all herp shows. It's more a reflection of the fact that I am a locality collecter and I simply don't make money at any show, rather than a reflection of any thoughts about the "worth" of such a show. If I covered the cost of the table, hotel, meals, etc and at best time off from work then I was happy. But I rarely even did that. Really I just go to shows nowdays to have fun.

I have not been a vendor for years. I usually just get a vendor pass from a buddy in exchange for working his table while he walks around. I like to hang out, look at what people are working with and go to dinners. It's much funner now that I don't try to make money.
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www.hcu-tx.org/

Vending takes time, time to pack, unpack repack and unpack. You helped my point about LOCALITY simply being unprofitable, that wont change any time soon at a Non-boid show. I'm sure we all have our own self interests at heart.

I just noticed that you've got Memphis listed as one of the possible sites.

I just wanted to mention that when there's a reptile expo in "Memphis", it isn't really IN Memphis. It's actually held across the border in MS. Because of the herp laws here, IMHO it's just about impossible to have a colubrid show that's actually within the borders of the state.

Just a personal pet peeve of mine!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Thanks for the input as I was only trying a certain demographical area. That is good to know thanks.
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Jimmy Tintle

I think you mean "non-ball python show". There are lots of under-represented boids/pythonids (rosy boas, rainbow boas, womas, black-headed pythons, carpet pythons, chondros). The ball python market is in the middle of a major correction and prices are plummeting. Too many morphs, many of which look pretty much the same. Say what you want, ball pythons are still boring snakes prone to go on prolonged fasts.

I believe the locality colubrid guys may have it right. They are passionate about their animals and are producing snakes that in some cases (some populations of getula and triangulum) are becoming pretty rare in the wild. If they can hang in there, they should eventually be rewarded for their efforts. I support them and buy from them, but not at shows. Why hassle with a show if you can buy on-line from high quality, reputable guys?

I kind of agree. There's tons of neat boids that aren't all over the place; another poster mentioned breeding ground boas for instance, which are also really neat snakes. And there's anthill pythons, some of the less common sand boas (Russian sand boas are awesome), dwarf boas (not dwarf BC's but Tropidophis), etc.
I probably wouldn't go to a show that excluded all boids myself; I like and enjoy several species (even BPs!). But I sure do understand wanting a show that isn't the same 1/2 dozen species all over the place...but I just doubt it's viable to restrict to colubrids.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

I keep only colubrids and mostly locality at that. Personally I like looking at boas and pythons when I go to a show. Then again I am mainly a window shopper at shows. I rarely buy anything nowdays and if I do it's usually from a close friend and not at a show.

I brought locality graybands, generic mexicana and generic knoblochi to the Del Mar show(yes that long ago), then the San Diego show and eventually the Anahiem show for over 10 years. Sales off the table were always extremely dismal I think the most I ever made was just under $400 and that includes presold babies and the table cost $200.

My thought are that boids don't hurt sales, people want what they want. Colubrids have been at these shows forever and if people wanted them they would have bought them. There's just so many out there it's hard for any one vendor to do really good.
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www.hcu-tx.org/

all this or all that shows will not work or survive....

I sell colubrids from corns $10 to balls at thousands....

milkheads trading IN Hotel rooms is one reason we might as well buy balls at the show and make $$$...can't get the milks anyways...and when we do you can't sell them.....can't even make them eat half the time...LOL.....

trading before shows and selling is enough to make it an all vender show and not even open the doors sometimes....been there....hey...I sold ALL my stuff at 8:45 one time ....done before the door opened....

too many rodent people at some shows.....0ver 10 people selling frozen stuff is too bad for them.....
too many people selling junk...period...non reptile related even.....sucks.....baby turtles ...kills snake sales...trust me....would mommy buy a kid a $25 corn or a $3 turtle...?.......take a guess.....

just some stupid points from my brain.......

..good luck.....I don't go to "Pet shows"....not enough reptiles....and never been to an amphibian show....

I might go to an all ball show?.....

......
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................JY

Your ROCK fetish aside, I think we should all just invade a FLEA MARKET one weekend before these big shows. Screw those window shoppers!

rock ? ....

maybe I should check my sig? or did I miss something?...

I thought of it before...local farm markets......set up with snakes at big prices....see the people...well...scream yell and run ...wussy people...wuld not be good idea for the snake people..

....I did see a guy once.....local market , outside selling DeKay's snakes and a couple garters....Ummm dude ...not legal....?...I don't think he cared......

......
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................JY