Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I had a bit of a space issue for a few months back in the spring and housed about four or five of ratsnakes together for a little while in a very large cage. Well my female 08 everglades became gravid. I thought a male corn mated with her since he had been brumated, but there was also a male bairds in the cage as well. Now that six of the nine eggs have hatched I'm not so sure it was the corn snake. What do you guys think? I'm leaning toward everglades/bairdi cross. By the way neither the glades or the bairds were brumated and the female wasn't even two years old yet. Here are pics of the first one. I'll post more soon.

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Matt Kauffman

Yeah, I DEFINITELY see the bairdi influence there!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>Yeah, I DEFINITELY see the bairdi influence there!
>>
>>
>> ~Doug
>>-----
>>"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
>>
>>my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I am gonna exhibit my ignorance and ask....can snake clutches have more than one sire? Like dogs or cats can have any number of babies each with it's own sire born in the same litter.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

"I am gonna exhibit my ignorance and ask....can snake clutches have more than one sire?"

The very last thing I would call that question is ignorant. As a matter of fact, that is a VERY good question!. I have pondered that very question for years as well. I have never witnessed proof of this in any clutches personally, but that is because I only ever introduce one known male at any given time, but I see that as being quite possible and probable if a female was bred to more than one sire in fairly quick succession.

I would figure each male's sperm could easily swim around and fertilize different egg ova that were lined up in her. I would also assume it would depend on which male had more active, and more powerful sperm cells as well to be more able to penetrate the female sex cells before the other male's got to them.

that is an EXCELLENT question and point Sonya, and I am glad you brought it up. I hope some others can chime in with any personal experience with that ever happening in their clutches.

Very interesting indeed!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

That isn't a dumb question at all. I too had that same thought. So far, all the hatchlings have the same general look, like the one pictured. Two more are now pipping, with one more not open. I'll post a pic of all the hatchling once they are all out and have shed. I feel kinda stupid for letting this happen as I am not a fan of hybrids or unnatural occuring integrades. To be honest I don't know what I'm going to do whith these things. I guess it will be a little interesting to see what they turn out looking like. At least they're in the same Genera(or at least used to be).
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Matt Kauffman

if you want to get rid of then, shoot me a price shipped to 47648.

"I am gonna exhibit my ignorance and ask....can snake clutches have more than one sire?"

That would be yes. I've seen it happen more than once.
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I'm Dutch. Somebody shoot me.

>>>>Yeah, I DEFINITELY see the bairdi influence there!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ~Doug
>>>>-----
>>>>"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
>>>>
>>>>my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com
>>
>>I am gonna exhibit my ignorance and ask....can snake clutches have more than one sire? Like dogs or cats can have any number of babies each with it's own sire born in the same litter.
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>>Sonya
>>
>>I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
>>Happy Bunny

I know they can retain sperm so it would seem very possible.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes...No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

I have seen it first hand when one of my females ended up being a male that did not have the simple recessive gene I was breeding for. Homozygous male and female plus the normal male all together produced hets and homozygous babies. Should have been all or nothing and the male was proven out in successive years as a normal when breed to the homozygous female, a het female and then sold to someone who knew the breeding history and still tried to prove him as a het and failed.

So long answer given short, yes it can happen but it seems as though the males all need to be around at the same time. On a totally different not this is also why some species that have mating balls develop sperm plugs to block other males from breeding as seen in garters and anacondas.

Jason

Most certainly Baird's influence.
Not surprising, Matt.
My male Baird's would mate with a horsehair rope if I let them.
.
20 years ago, one male crawled out of its cage during cleaning and nailed a female corn that I had out, feeding.
Later, the same one got a female Texan in another comedy of errors.
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Regards, Bill McGighan

as well.

for what it's worth, my glades as well as my bairds (mexican) breed every year and usually double clutch without ever cooling.

depending on the color of your bairds, that could grow into a pretty cool looking animal.

in regards to sonyas question....... i think i read on the boa forum a few years back that multiple males can fertilize the same litter..... with the offspring showing traits from both males used in the breeding. i dont see why it couldnt happen with colubrids...

byron.d

The bairds is most likely the lucky stud from the looks of the hatchlings.

Those are going to grow to be beautiful! Think of the orange, red and yellows between the two subspecies...

I agree! Lots of orange! Jeff

Wow! I agree those look like they have some Bairdi blood!Lol!Betcha' they'll be some colorful adults. Jeff

>>I had a bit of a space issue for a few months back in the spring and housed about four or five of ratsnakes together for a little while in a very large cage. Well my female 08 everglades became gravid. I thought a male corn mated with her since he had been brumated, but there was also a male bairds in the cage as well. Now that six of the nine eggs have hatched I'm not so sure it was the corn snake. What do you guys think? I'm leaning toward everglades/bairdi cross. By the way neither the glades or the bairds were brumated and the female wasn't even two years old yet. Here are pics of the first one. I'll post more soon.
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>>Matt Kauffman
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Corn snakes and rat snakes...No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

Those should color up nicely. Are you going to keep some and show us updates?

Yes, I'm going to keep a pair and keep everybody updated.
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Matt Kauffman

Here is a pic of a clutch of normal everglades hatchlings for reference and there are plenty of bairds baby pics up right now.

Jason