Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My adult NJ Easterns, parents of a clutch of 18 little pains in the butt who don't feel like eating yet. Gorgeous babies, classic high-chained pinstripe NJ Easterns, but a challenge to establish. I've done it before so I'm not worried. Some may need to hibernate before waking up to the virtues of food.

Female first, produced by Keith Hillson from southern NJ stock. She's just over three feet.

Male second, bred by Keith from his legendary Monmouth County male. This big boy is over four feet long.

Nice pair you got there. I wonder why chains are so difficult to get eating? I hear this quite a bit, and I have a little male now who is making me sweat bullets, lol. it's too far away from winter here in Florida so that's not an option.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I've heard alot of Easterns prefer snakes and sometimes lizards as the first few meals.... If you have access to lizards you might want to give it a go.....

byron.d

I tried a hatchling Mediteranian or house gecko which I thought for sure would do the trick. It's in a deli cup right now with a small anole. I tried brain feeding and tease feeding. I may have to go hunting for ground skinks tomorrow/uhm today actually. I used to see plenty of them on my property but a couple years ago I sprayed for fleas and it killed everything. The Anoles are just starting to get re-established but still not as plentiful as before. I haven't tried a baby snake yet. I don't want to give it a taste for snakes. But I did try scenting a pinky with a baby yellow and a corn.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

if you have a fresh shed from a snake you might want to try stuffing a pink in a section of it and offering that. i havent done it myself, but know some Eastern guys that have done it.

best of luck.

byron.d

I will try that thanks!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Yeah Jorge, I had the same problems with hatchling Outer Banks and floridana's in the past too. Gosh some were unbelievable pains in the arse!.

I tried EVERYTHING!....live pinks, dead pinks, brained pinks, anole scented pinks, crushed shedskin soup scent, anoles, cornsnakes, geckos, frogs, fish scent, and nothing worked at all. So I just force/assist fed them a couple times to simply keep them alive until something clicked in their little heads and told them that they had to open their mouth and actually swallow something voluntarily..LOL! This went on for almost three months!!

Well, it eventually happens one day, and for whatever reason they eat, and eat well from that day forward like voracious carnivores, but until that happens, one has to just keep them alive anyway they can, and that might include pushing a tiny anole down them once in a while, or a small shot of egg with crushed pinkie from a little thin tube attached to a syringe. But the small anoles are really shaped well for force-feeding small hatchlings, and their hard, narrow pointed "bullet" snouts go right down easy as pie, then I shove them down the rest of the way with a blunt sexing probe.

Hope you get yours feeding voluntarily soon!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Yeah Doug I've had to do that for some stubborn Corn snakes. Most of the ones I have now have eaten by tease feeding them. But there are a few that make you want to do a body slam on them, lol. But I know they will come around eventually. Small Lizards are tailor made for shoving down the mouth of baby snakes. I used to have a pinky pump, and that thing saved many snake lifes when I didn't have as much experience. But to be honest I'm thinking of getting another one because they save so much time. And snakes fed this way I believe stress far less and eventually get a taste for the pinks.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

"And snakes fed this way I believe stress far less and eventually get a taste for the pinks"

Yeah, there is probably alot to be said there Jorge!. They would more than likely tend to get a better "taste" for pinkies that way I would think.

I have found that small pinks aren't a problem shoving down a hatchling cornsnake's much more loose and flexible head, but the hard little muscular heads on tiny king hatchlings.............forget about it!..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Corns are a lot easier than baby kings or milks, lol. They clamp down tight and put up a stellar fight, ha ha.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

.
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

...that's the reasoning behind using fat hopper tails..The snakes will often clamp down on the item and continue to eat it just as if they had grabbed it on their own. I have moles that (after 1 or 2 feedings) will voluntarily open their mouths when I hold them "in the position" to feed them a tail. There must be some mouse scent as well that they get used to as well, ya think?
Most go on to accept rodents in little time.
I do have one litle sfmk that to this day just loves anoles though......
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

Yeah, I have done that method many times too. Sometimes they clamp down, then begin to eat it down as you said, and some just sit there for five mimutes then spit it out the second they move. But yes, it does work with some.

Sometimes repeated tries will work too of course.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

If they get it in just a bit, they can't expel it and must continue to eat it.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

The more I think about the fuzzy tails, the more I like it. I am gona try it this weekend.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I've long wondered about the legal implications of owning some locality stocks. Three kings come to mind, the OBX, south GA, NJ kings.

The article listed below had me wondering about this and then this post on NJ kings comes along.

In the case of NJ Pine snakes massive collection and establishment of a captive gene pool certainly predates regulation but is that the case with the others? Does any one worry or think about tracing their stock back, not to just the local, but also to legally collected founders?
Snakes Loved to Death

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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM

Tony, same things I wondered for some time. And the albino easterns as well. Some say they that theirs are from TN stock and they're protected there....and others from NW GA and they're protected there too....not sure what to think on those....
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

Do people worry about the legal implications of beardies or spotted pythons? *shrug* If somethings umpteen dozen great grandparents were poached I don't care. Maybe that makes me a bad herper, but at some point I don't worry about it.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

in the eyes of the policy makers too. Now if a snake like the Leucy Hog was found there might be a "sudden rush" by the powers that be as there was in Colorado. As is, its simply not cost effective to attempt to pursue it. Besides, can you imagine them trying to prove where the snakes came from?? LMAO.

After 10 or 12 generations you couldn't, period. Once a species has been widely CBB for a few decades, you're hard pressed to act like the people buying them now are smugglers, or support smugglers, even if the original founding stock was smuggled in, back in the 1960s/70s/80s. I'm not sure exactly how the laws work, but I think any judge would be hard pressed to find a legal reason to give the 10 year old that bought a bearded dragon at petsmart so much as a stern talking to...and we know damn good and well those founding stock were probably smuggled out since they weren't being bred at the time Oz closed down.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

The fact of the matter is that if you can't trace it back then it wouldn't or shouldn't be called a NJ king in the first so your point is moot.

Given that LE does not require a black and white infraction of the law to significantly harass you, I think it was a legitimate question.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM

actually, I'm *seriously* dubious of any "locality" that is so many generations CBB. Localities aren't static after all...so what represented a locality corn or king from X area in 1970 may well not represent anything like what you'll find today...and it's very hard to believe that between all the stock there hasn't been an outsider or two (unless they heavily inbreed).
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

Actually with most law enforcement it's their burden to provide proof but if you look at some of the F&G laws and acts they have some sweeping powers to do many things that regular law enforcement doesn't. I know someone thats into Moths etc. as well as herps and he once told me that a bunch of Mexican moths were confiscated from collectors years after they aquired them because they did not have paperwork and they were given to a museum (did the museum wanting them have any juice in the descision to confiscate? I don't know)

It's a more enjoyable hobby when you don't have to look over your shoulder anyway LOL

I think most people, including myself, misunderstand the burden of proof or innocent until proven otherwise thing. I tend to think of it as a protection but my observations have been that people get hauled into court all the time and have to demonstrate their innocence at great personal and financial cost. I've often felt that in cases where the state looses these battles they should be made to pay the defendants legal fees. I think that would greatly reduce the number of unwarranted prosecutions by overzealous regulators.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM

I can see your point. It's done in civil cases in some instances. Not sure it would work for criminal cases. For example OJ? He's aquitted AND we pay. Extreme case Tony just kidding. Have a good one.

Bob.

Extrapalate that to US territories or OCCUPIED territories(IRAQ)and you make lawyers the highest paying profession in the world!