Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I decided to give my Az Mt. King one of my Honduran slugs and see what happened.

He love it!

-Rusty

Most snakes will eat eggs.....but the rocks/woods chips ain't a good idea.

Kerby...
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but walnut shell!

It's great because even neonates can eat it and it won't cause impaction.

It is kinda expensive, so if you're a large scale breeder, it's not a good choice...but I highly recommend it.

-R

Hmmm. Snakes have been eatting in the dirt alot longer than i can remember lol thats a long time...im not a firm believer in pristine surgery room sanitation and snake table manners.
I know Expensive exotic bird keepers use walnut ? ,I doubt it will pass very well , but the snakes mouth i designed to squeegee as it comsumes.
So reminds me of the OLD man with the young babe, his buddies warn or ask him arent you a little worried the heart and stuff ,he replies: Well a little! but if she dies, she dies.!

I'm having a little trouble following what you meant on this one Chris. Your not a fan of clean Surgery rooms? Anyway I hear this statement that snakes eat debris in the wild all the time. But a lot of the stuff we use for litter or beddding isn't something wild snakes would ever eat. They may eat a little dirt or grass, even some leaves, and possibly pea gravel. But shredded wood or ground coconut and stuff like that probably isn't gonna get swallowed.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Agreed, feed in sterilite shoe boxes!

Years ago I had two snakes die of impaction from scenes from just that.

Yes and no. Like most everybody else , I think about the impaction thing with substrates alot. There is a nature center nearby that used Corn cob and their snakes lived on it for near 20 years and never had an issue with compaction (even fed on it)even though we hobbyists stopped using it a long time ago.

I often wonder that if their stomach acids are strong enough to dissolve bone, hair and teeth why are wood products different?

I'm using Aspen,Sani-chips and newspaper presently to experiment with. A friend was over not long ago and remarked he would be afraid of impaction with Sani- chips. Lee Abbott and other folks seem to have no problems with it on a bigger scale. Could these cases you hear about be more complex? Like inactivity in small boxes like when humans have issues with being sedintary? Could that at least be part of it?

Also meant to ask if folks thought it could be the un-natural sharpness or quantity taken in of proccessed substates too?

There are probably snakes that have gotten compacted kept on newspaper. Could snakes get compacted for other reasons like hydration etc. and substrates is unfairly being blamed?

I appreciate that there are some folks who legitametly "know" by autopsy but a lot of the stories I hear are from something someone heard from someone who told them....

Again even if bedding is found, was hydration and excercise the root cause?

You know I don't have the answer to those questions and unless someone does a specific study on the subject, we may never really know. Having said that I must say that what worries me more than impactation is what is on those chips. I know I don't keep my cages pristine. I spot clean frequently untill the litter looks like it needs to be completely changed out. There is always a chance that some of the substrate that can be swallowed has the potential to harbor tiny spots of feces. We all know that drinking feces fowled water is bad so what about substrate that may be stained with poop. I feed all my snakes in small and giant brown paper lunch bags. They are cheap and double as hideaways for smaller snakes. Best of all they are disposable.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Good point.I have no answers either. I use paper plates sometimes for the same reasons. Especially when I choose to thaw a bunch of pinks in hot water and don't want the wet pinks picking all the bedding up.

>>Most snakes will eat eggs.....but the rocks/woods chips ain't a good idea.
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>>Kerby...
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Anecdotal...sorta. My vet, who sees most of the areas exotics (that don't go to Cornell) and thus many snakes HATES substrates like this especially for baby or small snakes. He said that 90% of the baby snake deaths he sees are impaction on anything aggregate. Sand, walnut, corn cob, shavings, 'jungle'mix (peat) coconut..if it can be ingested and is not digestible it is a hazard. He said too that what doesn't kill them generally causes mouth rot and injuries.

Like Frank Retes comment once on monitor substrates.....sand sold for reptiles is NOT sand like you find in nature. It is sharp edged, man made nasty stuff. Add to that that desert 'sand' and the actual habitat the animals reside on is totally different. Most of the 'desert' beasties are on the fine fine silt, not the coarse nasty stuff.

My other trouble with some substrates is how fast they mold or mildew. Corn cob grows a fine dusty green crap in a day or two. I know as I use it as a kitty litter at my kennel for some of the messier cats that get everything wet.....I can sweep it up instead of clay that when wet turns.....back into clay.. and is miserable to clean up. But left more than overnight and it is horrid with blue green fluffy mildew. Icky.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

I had a uro impact on the crushed walnut shells, that died and I brought it to the vet and the necropsy showed it was a impaction. I don't use it any more. I did not feed it directly on the walnut shells either i fed him in a bowl, I did notice he would get the bedding stuck on some of the food but never a large amount and the bag said it was safe but it wasn't.
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Michelle
www.AssortedSerpents.com
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful,
The Lord God made them all.

But I've used the crushed walnut shell for kings, milks and hogs. I would not recommend it for lizards, especially a lizard like a Uro that licks everything it sees.
There are always certain circumstances that could exacerbate impaction, like others have stated regarding proper care(dehydration, temps, and container size)
However, I've used walnut shell with out any issues for over 15 years, and I would recommend it to anyone.
-Rusty

!5 years? Without any known problems? That's a good recomendation. Thanks. Does it clump well for removing feces?
Any odor to be concerned with?
I love Walnut bodies on basses!

If you get the scat while it's still moist, it clumps together slightly.

I started using if for my Cal Kings and AZ Mt. Kings in 91-92 time frame.

I like it for many reasons, dry, absorbent, pleasing to look at, easy to clean, and all the snakes seem to really enjoy living on it (they can burro if you give them a decent depth).

It does have a distinct smell, not bad in my opinion. It also can grow mold under the water bowl if you leave it moist for too long...so just make sure you move the water around to avoid one area of high moisture.

Hope this helps...

-Rusty

Thanks Rusty. I appreciate it.

it looks really good Rusty! If I ever set up a nice display cage I will definately get some. I like the way it looks like real gravel.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

glad I could help out.

-R