Reptile & Amphibian Forums

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/lake/os-lk-snake-facility-approved-in-lake-20100826,0,1219873.story

...its about time IMHO...

...my new fav. politician...
http://www.13wmaz.com/news/local_story.aspx?storyid=87141
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1.0 c.b.02' 7' Pastel Colombian Boa (BCI)(thanks Bill!)"Maverick"
0.1 c.b.06' 6' Firebelly x Pastel Boa (BCI) "Betty Boa"
0.1 c.b. 07 6' Amazon Basin Redtail Boa (BCC)"Lola Boa"
1.0 c.b. 05 6' Blonde Bullsnake "Boo"
1.0 c.b. 05' 4 1/2' Snow Corn "Zero"
1.0 wc 4' Fl.Cornsnake "Iggy"
0.1 cb 18" Okeetee Cornsnake "Bella"
1.0 wc 3'Everglades x Yellow Ratsnake "Achmed"
1.1 wc LTC Southern WhiteLip Pythons "Thorne and Ariel"

I couldn't bring up the story, but thats good news.
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1.0 Albino American alligator, "Smoke"
1.1 American alligator,"Al Bite Ya & Molly"
1.1 Purple Albino Reticulated Pythons, "Gumbo & Abita"
0.1 Eastern Gaboon Viper, "Gabbie" Recently passed away at 24 years old
Help me find this snake!

>>I couldn't bring up the story, but thats good news.

I think this is the story:

STORY

Not sure the program will be successful, but it's about time it's at least being attempted.

Sounds like a good idea. Captive breeding for placement where?

My idea is to have large habitat set-asides for endangered animals. There are some general natural areas, but I'm referring to specific ones, as in Gopher Tortoises and Box Turtles for example.

All developers should be required to donate set-asides and wildlife corridors for any threatened or endangered animals known to inhabit the development in question. Same as for groundwater recharge zones.

I've seen far too many reptiles doing well in a habitat one day, to find the excavators and bulldozers there the next day.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

They don't need to breed them they just need to stop building houses on top of them.
Michael Luhrs

.....There really isn't a lot of home building going on in Fl. right now. For the first time in a very long time more people are moving out than are moving in to Fl.
Doesn't help much here economy wise but it is nice to see the habitat destruction here which has been rampant in years past slow down.
I actually have a box turtle that I have had for at least 12 years whose original home became a restaurant oddly enough I was by that restaurant recently and it's now closed. Such a waste of good land.

I agree. Without habitat where are they going to put them?
As someone likes to say, that is "the dialectic (false premise to conceal the truth)".
Their work is good, but alone in itself, will not accomplish the goal of continuing viable wild populations.
We need a balanced approach that encompasses a much more comprehensive plan.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

At present there is just NOT enough lg wild habitat left here to support many Indigo Snakes. When there are roads cut tru Indigo habitat they always diminish in numbers and then vanish as the breeders are slowly extirpated by vehicles. In my lifetime I've seen many populations just vanish even though seemingly good habitat is available still. Cars and DRYMARCHON don't coexist well....thanks
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Maybe we could have the govt make up signs similar to the panther crossing signs with the stimulus money
Indigo crossing
Next 30 miles
LOL
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1.0 Albino American alligator, "Smoke"
1.1 American alligator,"Al Bite Ya & Molly"
1.1 Purple Albino Reticulated Pythons, "Gumbo & Abita"
0.1 Eastern Gaboon Viper, "Gabbie" Recently passed away at 24 years old
Help me find this snake!

It’s always interesting to watch well meaning people waste time and money trying to push a snowball across the desert in July.
This is an example of when a bunch of well meaning people and government agencies get together.
At Fort Irwin California the Army decided to expand the training center (about 63,000 acres) Everyone decided to “Save The Desert Tortoise” so they spent millions of dollars and a couple of years coming up with a PLAN.
The PLAN was to move 600 wild Desert Tortoise off the Base into occupied tortoise habitat. The occupied habitat already had about 600 tortoises in it. The story is too long to post here but to make it short. 300 of the new tortoises died and 300 of the already existing tortoises died. If they had just left them alone I’m sure the tanks would have killed a fair number but not all of them. The well meaning people wouldn’t listen to those of us who have spent just as many years in the field and sometimes more and so a lot of Desert Tortoises died for no reason.
I do Biological Consulting mostly in the Mojave Desert and sometimes I want to puke when I see what is happening to it.
Michael Luhrs

Nothing beats leaving large tracts of suitable habitat in place. You will save indigos, box turtles, gopher tortoises, panthers and Eastern diamond backs, as well as all those other plants and critters. I hope the next time I get out to Florida I can see a wild indigo, if there are any left.

I agree. If all the so called "environmentalists" would do something to reclaim suitable habitat from their developer cronies, then they might have a bit more credibility.

Barriers and various safe crossing structures can be built.

Put their money (which they have plenty of) where their mouths are. Talk is cheap. Put up or shut up. They can talk the talk, but can't seem to walk the walk.

Stop scapegoating people that have a more genuine interest, have had for far longer, and have decades and decades of practical experience and subject knowledge.

It's a shame that the animals in question and people seem to prefer the same habitats. It's up to people to show some restraint and to be the good stewards of what we've been given. We've won the battle. Lets show some mercy and some grace for the land and to it's inhabitants for a change.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Barriers and various safe crossing structures can be built.

Ironically enough John the only 2 such crossing structures I have seen are both less than 5 miles from where this project is located. They are both on sr46 in lake county this inidgo shindig is located on sr44 in lake county. There is actually a fair amount of rural land that is only bisected by dirt roads (if you can call them that.) between the location of the project on sr44 and county route 42 which is the major road I am closest to. If you haven't figured it out yet this whole thing is pretty much in my backyard. They mention trying to build enclosures to keep the bears out in one of the articles. I hope they think hard about that one it sometimes blows my mind what bears are capable of breaking into and they seem to have a taste fro reptiles. I had one try to break into my courtyard to get at my tortoises and box turtles twice last year. That's not all that hard to do and the only thing that kept them out was one of my husky mixes who has a real hard on for taking down a bear. Some city guy moved 2 properties down from me last year and re-fenced it with 2x4 fencing which was rather expensive(and quite honestly not the best choice to fence in his whole property.) I don't think he had it up 3 days and a bear went through it like it was rice paper he has repeated the same thing several times. My favorite though was to see where a bear bent a steel pole to get a bird feeder mounted on top of it. He twisted it like a half of a pretzel.

I never knew Bears were such a problem in Florida. I know Feral Hogs are a big problem here in Texas. They may have something to do with the vanishing Box Turtles and a few others. Don't know.

There are mutualistic commensal relationships between all the subterranean inhabitants of Gopher burrows. The Tortoise in Florida and the Rodent in Texas. I think the extirpation of Rattlesnakes has a lot to do with the coincidental disappearance of many micro-niche sharing species.

I though Texas Indigos pretty much stayed in burrows, such as Gopher warrens. Thought they laid their eggs deep in the burrows. New Jersey Pines are that way, too. Ruthven's most likely as well. Thought Texas Indigos' activity period was one much cooler than one would think. Thought their eggs incubated at a lower temps than expected, too.

Kinda thought predators wouldn't be able to easily locate eggs that deep in the dirt. Possibly now the coincidental Rattlesnakes are to far and few between to discourage predation.

Have no idea on the Florida Indigo's lifestyle.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

>>At present there is just NOT enough lg wild habitat left here to support many Indigo Snakes. When there are roads cut tru Indigo habitat they always diminish in numbers and then vanish as the breeders are slowly extirpated by vehicles. In my lifetime I've seen many populations just vanish even though seemingly good habitat is available still. Cars and DRYMARCHON don't coexist well....thanks
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>>Tom Crutchfield
>>www.tomcrutchfield.com

I guess my expectations are exceedingly low at this point. At least there's a possibility this project might at least raise some awareness of the indigo's plight. It's better than my tax money going towards "research" trying to prove that Burmese pythons can live in Ohio and Washington, DC.

Thanks,
Ed

It is a good project for many reasons. Public awareness for one. And a nice viable captive reservoir for two. Let's not stop there, though.

The Burmese Python issue is a strawman. It may offend the sensibilities of those nature purists to have the alien brutes in the Everglades, but the likelihood they're beneficial because the habitat has already been altered so extensively, is just as likely as not.

Time for these die-hard naturalists to do something practical in reclaiming habitat for naturally occurring icons. Doesn't have to be a "World Heritage Site". Just has to be functional for native fauna. I'm tired of the professional non-profit profiteers and their holier than thou agenda.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer