Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just bought 3 farmed baby V. prasinus in Daytona Show, and Im having a little trouble getting them to eat.

The permanent cages will be ready in 10 days and Im keeping them in plastic containers with a water bowl, a hot rock and a few branches. Ambient temperature is in the high 70's and they have the heat rock available (they use it often).

My problem is getting them to eat.
They don't seem very interested in roaches or small mealworms. One of them did take pieces of a mouse neonate.

I don't know if Im doing anything wrong. I also don't know if they need a warmer spot, with a spot UVA lamp (I've ordered it and the new cage will have it, along with a fluorescent UVB).

I'm worried about the smaller one, as it is very young and more fragile (seems in good shape thou). Here's it:

I'm receiving some small crickets on wednesday but I don't know if I should open it's mouth and try to put a piece of roach or mealworm before that.
The seller told they were accepting crickets.

Should I worry or am I just freaking out?

There is so much to talk about when it comes to varanid husbandry that it would be easy to write a book in giving you a response. I'm going to hold back and give you a few major bullet points.

-HEAT. Lots more of it. You should have a basking spot of at least 110-120F. When they grow up a bit, hotter is better. Don't need any special bulbs. A 45 watt incandescent flood lamp should be fine. Just allow them to be able to get close. Using a small bulb and allowing them to sit close will allow you to use low wattages to attain 110-120F basking spots.

-Humidity. Make sure you are limiting air flow/air movement. I find that dehydrated animals cease eating quicker than cold animals. Cover any screen/mesh material if that applies to your caging.

-plenty of hides

-Don't handle them until they are doing well. Until you dial in your husbandry handling is just another stress variable that you don't need.

Here is a basic FAQ for monitors. This is not species specific but monitor husbandry is not really species specific.
http://www.varanus.net/faq/

Good Luck

A heat rock!! No offense but you probly should have done more research before purchasing suck a high price monitor, or really any for that matter. Hot rocks are a big no no with any reptiles. The actual tub for an enclosure is not a problem assuming you can give them a proper basking spot without overheating the rest of the cage.

that shouted out problems off the get go. The other guys are right you should go do some research on monitor husbandry asap (i bet they wer NOT cheap). I am not an expert by any means and my experience is solely with ackies (only 4 years with some breeding success) but its to my knowledge that prasinus are not for beginners or even more experienced keepers.

there are a couple of decent websites out there just get ur google on and you'll get a good idea. Monitors are tough, but prasinus are easily stressed, especially under the wrong conditions. Toss the screen top altogether get a solid top and make sure they can get CLOSE to the lamp. my ackies readily use hot spots of 140 degrees (prasinus are probably different) allow them choices as hot or cool as they want and cover/security in those ranges.

check this pic, might give u ideas if ur handy
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/album.php?aid=4063&id=100001540151673

you can see the trough and how the light is built into the top, just an idea

good luck with them, I always wanted to get some of those so i'm def jealous. AND PICS. pics always help. even if you just upload a bunch to like webshots or something that will help a lot on the forum

best piece of advice I heard from a guy who knows these critters is "watch your animals" watch their behavior it will tell you a lot.

Twillis 10,

Yes I know a heat rock is not the ideal. If you read my post, you'll see that the definitive cage will come in a week. I also ordered the UVA spot lamp.

I don't live in USA, and in my country (Brazil) those equipments are not so easily found.

They are with this heat rock, meanwhile.

But I'll see if I can find a regular spot light.

Where in Brazil do you live? This may be very helpful to you depending on where you live. What kind of caging/heating do you use for your basins?

Believe it or not, ten days is a long time in terms of tree monitor husbandry. If the one you are worried is taking mouse parts go with that for now every couple days. I would also separate the small one until it has become more established and is taking food regularly.

Beautiful V. prasinus you have. I keep V. macraei, or blue tree monitors.

Just a suggestion based on my experience with my tree monitors is don't hold them, at least until they have acclimated, you have familiarized yourself with their behavior and have been taking food for quite some time.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet but I do suggest getting a copy of the Savannah book by Bennett and Ravi as a "refresher". The information in this book can easily be applied to your tree monitors. This book helps "train the keepers mind" to think about all the details of monitor husbandry that are often over looked. Monitor husbandry is different than lizard or tegu husbandry.

I look forward to your response,

Steve - sdi

Thanks for the input, Steve.

I live in São Paulo. My basins I use 2'X2'X2' custom made wood cages. I have a climatized room (no individual heating/humidifiers).

The monitors are being kept in another room. I'm not handling them.

I'm buying a few artificial plants today to put in their tubs to make them feel safer. Im also providing some sort of spot lamp while my UVA don't arrive.

Thankes very much for the book sugestion. I did make some research but couldnt find a suitable book. Just a couple caresheets.

I'll post some pics and updates ASAP.

One more thing: Any good forums on tree monitors (not that this is a bad one, but it is always nice to have a more specific place)? I really enjoy discussing with other keepers

You dont have a store you can get a halogen light? You can cut a whole in the top of the container and glue screen in. heat rock while working doesnt produce near enough heat, and heat rock gone haywire will fry your expensive little monitors. Thats not to likely but not a chance you want to take. I wasnt trying to bash just some constructive criticism.
Link

Calparsoni was thinking the same thing as me when you said you live in Brazil. From what I remember about Sao Paolo it is pretty dry and fairly cool at night in the winter (low to mid 60's F). Most of the rain comes in the summer, which is our winter up here in the US. I have family in Brasilia which is like Arizona in terms of climate.

One of my V macraei was in pretty rough shape by the time I received it. It was about the same size as your little prasinus. Since the tree monitors are so lean they do not have the body mass to carry them through stress like larger bodied monitors. So, step one in my opinion is take all steps necessary to reduce stress until your caging arrives and your monitors are "established".

I would separate all three of them if they are not readily accepting food. Just being in the presence of the other monitors will stress them. Set them up in their own cages with a dirt substrate, plenty of branches, foliage and secure hide areas. A secure hide area is an area where the monitor can wedge between like two pieces of bark laid next to each other. If you are using tubs try something like the orange tubs in the photo for your set up:

http://www.proexotics.com/pics_11_18/facility/e coxi setup row lights 10-02 2.jpg

I know you have already heard to get rid of the hot rock – so do it! A week is a very long time in terms of a baby tree monitors life. I have noticed changes in behavior in just a couple days if my tree monitors don’t have adequate humidity or a sufficient hot spot. Mine appear to thrive with an ambient range of 73 – 90f with a hot spot at 120f and humidity between 70-90% . Also, I hate to tell you at this point but a 3’ x 2’ x 2.5’ high cage is probably a little small for three prasinus. As they grow the cage will be pretty crowded which could cause dominance/stress issues related to lack of space. If you are keeping a trio you will want a cage size of approximately 6’ x 3’ x 6’. If you can line the interior with bark or orchid roll it will allow them to crawl on the sides of the cage and greatly increase their usable space which gives them more room to have their own territory. Lining the walls also helps maintain humidity.

Make sure they are hydrated. This is the first thing that should be done. I suggest soaking them in shallow, room temperature water for 30-60 minutes which will allow them to drink and hydrate their skin. Soaking at this point in my opinion is imperative. I have noticed that some of my tree monitors prefer to drink water droplets as opposed to drinking from a water bowl, especially when they first arrive because they do not feel secure enough to leave their hiding areas. If you soak them they are almost forced to hydrate themselves.

Not until they are hydrated will they even want to eat. Two of mine when they arrived would only eat mouse parts from forceps. They would not leave the security of their cork tubes to forage for food. At this point in their acclimation I also noticed that even small insects would stress them at certain points of the day. Smaller is better in terms of food size. Just remember, hydration is more important than food at this point. Down the road when you are ready I would suggest starting a roach colony for their food source. I have noticed that my tree monitors do best on an insect based diet. They become pretty lethargic if their diet consists of too many mice or chicks. I use mice or chicks sparingly because of this.

In terms of research and forums. There aren’t any really active forums that I have come across. I suggest googling V prasinus. A lot of the information is pretty generic but there is some good stuff out there. Youtube has some good videos which are helpful in understanding the cage environment. Reptile whisperer on youtube has some great videos. A handful of people on this forum are pretty experienced monitor keepers as well. Most of which have been keeping monitors much longer than me. Proexotics is keeping a group of prasinus if you are willing to make a call to the states. Here is a link to some of their monitor information:

http://www.proexotics.com/care_sheets.html

Finally, anything I am writing is just an attempt to help. I don’t know what you already know in terms of husbandry so I am just trying to hit some of the major points. That is a gorgeous group of monitors so I hope everything works out for you. Feel free to keep the photos coming and I think it would be ok if a photo or two of your basins were in there too.

Good luck!

Steve - sdi

If you live in northern or central brazil you might want to look into keeping them outdoors as your climate should be similar to where they come from. Even is southern Brazil aren't you coming into springtime right now? You could prepare to take advantage of summer weather. I have heard of coffee crops somewhere in southern brazil suffering from frost damage on occasion so I do know it does occasionally get cold to some degree in some parts of your country. Quite honestly though climate wise a good bunch of brazil would be heaven for most of us here in the U.S. as far as keeping monitors goes, even for me and I live in central Fl..
Oh yeah as some others on here said hot rocks are bad, I occasionally pick up used tanks and sometimes hot rocks come with them, I just noticed the other day that there are a couple of them sitting next to my garbage can and I was wondering why they hadn't yet made it in the can, they have most likely been sitting there for a few years. I guess they're kind of like landscape rocks for my trash can area lol, it's one of their more useful applications.

I have never worked with anything in the prasinus complex and I am sure some of those who have will post some info helping you. Having your conditions set up right are going to help a lot at your lizards not being stressed and eating properly.
In addition to the monitors I have worked with I have done a lot of work with chameleons which can be notoriously picky eaters. If the standard comercial food fare doesn't work for you try grasshoppers for a while and if you can find some juvenile katydids. Rudicolis monitors eat them like pigs, and I suspect the prasinus monitors are a bit similar in habit.
There is no garauntee that your monitors are actually farm raised and not just outright wild caught so you may have to improvise like this for a while until they switch over prey item wise.
Moths are another good one to try as in the lizard world they are somewhat like candy which is something I have known since I was about 9. Like I said working with chameleons which can sometimes be picky eaters helps in this dept. but grasshoppers and moths will usually win over the pickiest eaters. I mentioned katydids as they are a large part of the insect fauna of tropical forests (obvious natural prey.) and as I said rudicolis monitors go nuts for them.

First I want to thank everyone for the incredible input.

Regarding the monitors origin, the person who gave them to me bought them at Daytona, from a person called Michael Cole (www.ballroompythonssouth.com). I wrote Michael and he seemed a nice person. He told me they are farmed and were eating crickets before being sold.

As for the heat rocks, I had them stored here for a few years, and decided to use them for these little lizards while waiting for their cages. I got the message and will remove them.

I also managed to get all the equipment and cage furniture earlier. So now I have them with spot UVA's, reaching 35-38 celcius. And they seemed pretty happy with that. They started to bask and a few minutes later got electric moving all over. One of them even ate a big roach just a couple minutes after basking.

The smaller one I was a bit concerned, so I opened his mouth and put a small mealworm. After some fussing, I released him and he didnt spit. He started trying to kill and break the mealworm and finally swallowed it. I repeated the process one more time.

THe bigger one Im not so worried as I saw him eating in the first day. Both tubs also have a few roaches in there so he might have eaten earlier.

Tomorrow I'm cutting the tub's tops and putting a mesh to let the lamps on all day.

As for keeping them all together as a breeding group, I'll try but Im not building the definitive enclosure until I know their sexes.

I have read all the replies here and will try to follow everything.

Unfortunatelly my city is not in the north, as previously mentioned. The winter can be quite cool, but I'll try to give them as much sunlight as possible in the warm months (like 9-10 months a year).

I'll be posting everything as they develop.

Here are a few images and a couple videos I've done. I never tried to post videos before, so I hope they work:

Here's the tubs with the new spot UVA's. Temps reach up to 38 celcius. Tomorrow I'm putting a screen cover on the lids so I can just leave the lamps there:

This is the most active of the 3. None are shy but this one will jump to my hand as soon as I open the tub. It is the animal eating the roach in the video:

This is the smallest of the 3. I put a mealworm in his mouth and it did eat it after a while:

He's a video of him:

Now a few random pics of them:

nice that they are eating something, but (and this may be different with prasinus) monitors should be eating machines. Mine eat until they poop and then eat some more.

I dont know exactly how you will have it set up but you mentioned a mesh top. IME mesh tops/screen TOTALLY suck for monitors. I know its all very temporary but keep in mind with high temps and a large heat source the animals and cage will dry out VERY quickly....and that is with monitors that live in much dryer ranges, so i doubt it will be very beneficial for ones that require more humid ranges.

just some food for thought. and the animals look great btw. awesome pics i want some of my own.

Thanks Mike,

I'll have to put screen tops because of the stop lamps. There are a few holes in the sides as well.
So far the humidity goes from 95% just after misting in the morning to 60% at dawn.
The heat lamp will surelly make it dry quicker but I can mist them more or cover part of the screen with a piece of plastic.

Monitors are not snakes.
Your setup (paper soi, plastic box) is a big source of stress.
The foto session too, and the force feeding TOO.
In another post you said something sounds like "I keep reptiles for 15y so I tink I'm ok to try something with these lizards...".
Sorry, you'r wrong. Try to change ALL quickly or your very nice prasinus will die in no more then a month.
If you want exemples for very good setup for these specie you can have a look on waranwelt forum

Try these http://www.forum.waranwelt.de/index.php?page=Board&boardID=51

http://www.forum.waranwelt.de/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=3598

http://www.forum.waranwelt.de/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=3597

Thanks for the tips, Ludo.

My friend bought them for me and delivered them 2 days after. I always admired this species but I wasn't expecting having them at this moment.

This is the temporary setup I managed to do. It will be their homes until next week only.

I also did not force feed. I just put the mealworm in one of the monitors mouth and it did swallow for itself. It could spit but it did swallow. I just did it because this one was too small and I was afraid it could loose weight.

Although I don't see them eating all the time, they are defecating. For that reason, I believe they are now slowly starting to eat.

That is not nearly an ideal setup but that's what I could do at the moment. I have all the equipment ready here, just waiting for the cage to arrive next week.

The problem is your setup is good for your snakes, not for prasinus, just like if you say "these are arboreal tropical reptiles, so the conditions good for my tropical snakes are be good for them"...they are not. The hotspot temp are toooo low and the box probably a great source of stress. So they don't feed very well.

You ave to change your setup as soon as possible, it's easy, you have all in your hands.

the new cage is arriving soon. For now, I'm doing the best possible. I already fixed the hot spot problem.

Another question that came to my mind. If I put a lot of plants in the cage, how do I feed the lizards?
Should I just throw a lot of crickets in (most would probably hide in the plants) or should I feed 1 by 1 to the monitors, making sure they are eating everything?

You can use deli cups solid ones work best translucent ones are ok, but transparent ones are not the best choice as the lizards are not always bright enough to figure out why they can see the bugs and not get to them.
Find a way to fasten the cup or bowl to where it won't tip over and the lizards can spot the bugs inside it. Obviously use one small enough for them to be able to get in and out of it easily. As long as they can see the bugs they will figure it out. I use this method in my outdoor chameleon/day gecko enclosures. I use 1 gallon (U.S.-I think it is about 3.8 liters metric .) Ice cream containers with holes drilled in the bottom to facilitate drainage. Not only do they day geckos and chameleons figure out rather quickly where the bugs are but I tend to get anoles (anolis sagrei and carolinensis) and five lined skinks (Eumeces.....unsure of the species this early....brain not fully functional yet.) that figure out where the bugs are as well. The skinks tend to get trapped in the containers so as I said size your container appropriately.

Bad at being predators monitors are not. If your monitor is feeding/wants to eat there is NO place that food item can hide

I have LOTS of particularly porous cork bark in my cage, LOTS of substrate and other places for crickets to hide. I toss in a hundred at a time. Whatever they don't eat makes for great entertainment when the lizards rip at the bark or dig up the survivors. Bury a carrot or whatever in the substrate with some superworms and watch the ackies hawk em down is pretty cool too.

Cricket breeding only becomes a prob if i do this right at the moment the two females go off normal feeding when laying eggs, or getting very close....but I can pretty much recognize that time now.

The only problem with that with crickets is that they are nocturnal and if you over do it they can turn the tables on your animals and start gnawing on them. Not so much of an issue with a larger more well established monitor but given the stress factor involved with these being new acquisitions, fairly young ones at that, and being that from what I understand prasinus monitors are a bit more fragile than most monitors (not to mention a bit pricey.) I would go with a feeding station at least until they were established, if I was the one working with them.

i guess it really doesnt work in his situation. I also didnt mention I do leave some cricket munchies in there for them...

Yes I thought about that. I left a few carrot slices in the cage to avoid these problems.