Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Today I put some plastic plants in the tubs so the prasinus may feel a bit more secure.

No more heat rock and the basking spot on the higher branches is now reaching 115-120F. That would pretty much cook any snake and Im pretty sure it doesn't get that hot in any rainforest of the world under the sun (perhaps a big rock under the sun but definetely not on a tree branch). But, that is the temperature I found to be ideal by googleing a few caresheets.

I also added a small den to give them opportunity to hide completely if they choose to. They seemed to enjoy it.

New and bigger water bowls were also added. I have seen all 3 monitors drinking from it. The bigger one is sleeping in the water as I type.

Plastic sheets were put over the lids to keep the humidity in. This will be the hardest part because with such a hot basking spot the water must be evaporating pretty quickly.

I still didn't use any substrate to avoid having the crickets hidden and to make it easier detecting the feces.

I didn't see any of them eating in the last couple days, but they all look chunky on their bellies with no skin folds. Right now Im looking at the smaller one and it's tail base is pretty round.

Still below ideal conditions, but the new cages are on their way.

Comments appreciated (especially the critics)

A few pictures now. Here's cage from above, with the basking spot (plastic cover removed):

Both tubs, now there are more secure places:

The cave (still not a suspended one, but I will provide it next week):

This is the smaller monitor, sleeping by the water. He seems to like it. This picture is not so nice but I think it shows his belly looks chunky (I don't really know if prasinus ever get a skin fold if not eating):

Not bad for a temp cage.
Seems to have most of the essentials needed.

One thing I would suggest,when you get your permanent cages is a couple of elevated hides. I have mine screwed to the ceiling of my cage,with branches leading right up to them. Arboreal monitors seem to love these, as they can check out whats going on in their cage and also outside there cage, from above, while also feeling very secure. Ill try to post a pic. Bob

When i was planning my "baby" raising cage,i quickly took dome lights out of the design for these reasons.They are usually mounted on the outside of the cage meaning a large area of ventilation for humidity to escape.Raise cages are usually smaller,and to get the high basking temps you need higher wattage bulbs to get proper basking temps.Having high wattage bulbs makes it harder to get a range of temps in a smaller cage low 70's to a basking spot of around 110F.
Like i've been told on several occasions with the indo monitors,especially the smaller babies you don't have much room for error.If they dehydrate early,your chances of success are minimal.
Even a shallow layer of dirt and leaf litter substrate would help retain moisture for humidity.Sterile environment is not required to raise baby monitors,just remove excrement and uneaten food as you see it.If conditions are right they will eat the odd escaped crickets they find.

Im getting the suspended hide ASAP. I already have a piece of thick bamboo Im plannig to use.

What is the sugestion for heating other than a dome light?

Ceramic light sockets can be suspended within the cage,just make sure you use low wattage incandescent flood lights.This way the bulb just heats a small area and you can reduce ventilation in cage.Your setup being plastic containers safety can be an issue.Even though Prasinus are arboreal,don't fret over the height of the cage,as it is easier to control cages that are more long and wide as opposed to high.You can worry about height in their adult cages.I would personally use a glass cage with a solid top-the less ventilation the better.Then experiment with various wattages till you get a basking spot around 110F.

You must use low wattage bulb inside the box.
don't be affraid about burning. With low watt ordinary bulb the risk of burning is extremely low, and you conserve humidity far better.
I've used 15 to 25w ordinary bulb with succes in this type of box with thermophyles lizards.
Just have a try in a empty box

A real soil, with litter's leaves is far better.
With these the young monitors will eat a lot. Don't be affraid about "the prey and feces control". With litter's leaves the stress is so low than the young monitor will track all the preys and eat them all.

that is not a good set up for prasinus, you should have done your homework befor optaining this specie.
also as of yesterday in my back yard here in northern quebec you could find logs at 130f and more, the funny thing is I often see tree frogs basking in such temps, why on earth do you think prasinus in there native asia do not have such options?

you need to get on it now learn learn and learn again, ask and listen cause those with the experience have grown out of constant repeating.

these monitors will be dead before long and you will mouve on to some other distractions.

The funny or not so funny thing about monitors is they are easy to care for.The barrier in their care is the fact people can't accept that the way people have been taught in the past to keep monitors is not the right way.I hear(read) the frustration by many sucessful monitor keepers such as Jobi,who have bred them-their successes are not being repeated-at least not to their expectations.When you breed these animals,and their offspring still mostly do not live to their full life cycles is sad.The question I ask of those sucessful keepers is have things gotten better than in the past-is the message starting to sink in,or are we in no better shape than when we started.My guess is things are progressing just a lot slower than we would hope.I can only imagine having to repeat the same information over and over and only having a handful of people get it-and only a few of those to remain dedicated to it. thks Moe

moe 1964
snake guys never do well with monitors, monitors are way higher on the evolution scale, they have needs that snake keepers simply dont comprehand.
all this is ok exept that snake keepers dont want to evolve, they got it made and understand what snake needs, they figure hey I got it make and have sucess with my snakes eventho most keepers dont, so I cant be that far off. in truth this thinking will lead to the monitors diminish. not that it matters to me but thru the years iv seen far too many come and go.

I am more then willing to offer support to any one siriuous, but they are rare and faRE between.

cheers

Jobi,

I invite you to read my other post here. I do not plan to keep them like that.

I was pretty much GIVEN these monitors. There was no time to plan before getting them.
I have kept lizards before and quit for reasons that do not matter here. But I always liked them. I have had nile, dumeril and water monitors in outdoor enclosures (also other lizards).

Now Im back on keeping lizards, and it is not that I don't want to evolve or that I do not care to their needs or their well being. It is just that I do not know their needs as well as I know a snake's needs.
But I can learn. They are no distraction to me.

Im trying to do as I am told and according to what Im reading. Some informations are controversial, thou.

If I din't care about learning, I wouldn't be posting a lot of topics in such a short time here. Isn't it the first step?

You have them,it's best to help you.Baby monitors have more surface area than larger monitors so they will dehydrate quicker,coupled with stress,they can't wait for a proper cage.Nate started the thread with the basics,that's where you need to start,if you don't understand ask questions.Like Jobi said,these are not snakes.Meaning well the wrong way doesn't do your monitors any good-listen to guys like Jobi,FR,Ludo, and Nate they have had success,they have helped me raise my baby monitors successfully so far.You had monitors in he past,me too,but we weren't raising them correctly,or else you would have thriving eating little Prasinus'.

you want them to suceed, put them together in a larger well desingned cage with lots of options and never ever touch them again.
tho you may not see it these monitors you have are streesed to the max, thats why they dont feed and function normaly.

if you set them and respect there intimacy they will do fine withinn a few days, you will see them sometimes but mostly they will hide from you, the nature of prasinus.

belive me I have no need to judge you and dont come here to make friends, if I post it for the animals benifit.
your monitors are really in joperdise, they suffer inviernemental stress and when you manipulate them its like the final death mouve.
they may be monitors but they are not dumerils,nils or waters, these happen to be one that needs lots of varanid husbandry expertise (no room for mistakes they will not tolerate)

I am sorry for not reading your posts but you see it dosent change anything if I did.

"I am sorry for not reading your posts but you see it dosent change anything if I did."

One thing could change. You would see Im trying to learn and not sparing efforts. The cage is on it's way.

questions:
I bought quite a few artificial plants. Is it advisable to put lots of plants in the cage as to make it really densely planted?

About the light domes. I thought about not using domes but I believe I can manage to keep the humidity levels OK by covering most of the top with plastic. A lamp put inside the cage could compromise safety and vertical space so I think I'll try to use the domes outside. I'm using a dimmer on 100w spot lamps and the heat spot is around 115F. The nighttime lows are in the 75F range.

Humidity is high (90's and up) in the morning after misting, decreasing as the day goes, but after the lights go of it stays in the 70-80% range.

They don't seem very bothered with human presence. I see them active, basking and wandering around all the day. I am not handling them at all. I only disturb them for cleaning, offering food and misting.

over your cages a regular 25w bulb is enough, thats what I use to raise tree monitors to adulthood. the photo baby croc monitor shows a 45 gal baril with a simple 25w as sole heat source.

the point is understanding how to provide options that will be usefull to your monitors, not options that will lead them to crash eventualy.

also dont be fooled by how they seem not bothered, stress is invisible to the unexperienced. every time you spray them or come close to the enclosure they stress out of fear.

i never spray any lizards and belive me I keep far more delicate species then prasinus, the use of a deep substrate alows for good hydration. in simple terms if your cage cant suport life its useless to any lizards.
ask yourself how long would eggs live in your cage befor you find them.

theser no living varanids that need constant humidity, in fact your house is plenty hydrated to suport a monitor, substrata needs gradiants in temps and humidity as the air in your cages, that is caled options, a good choice of options for any given specie is called good husbandry.
youe job is to get this and apply it.

Thanks, and if you dont mind Im going to keep asking questions.

I see the point when you talk about not misting. I face similar situation with my emerald tree boas. they need higher than regular humidity and I provide that without misting.

- mineral/vitamin suplements should be used on the insects on a daily basis?

- What kind of substrate would you recomend for prasinus?

- Do you recomend weekly baths (I read it on Pro Exotics caresheets) for hydration?

- Any reading recomendations? Im going to buy that Ravi & Bennet book on exanthematicus, and have also read a few texts from Pro Exotics, Dragon's Lair, and a couple posts here and there in forums.

iv produced many emeralds and condros and yes iv provided them with similar care then prasinus, the only diference being that monitors are very wory about thier surundings, there teritory is olfatory and visual. you see them sent mark every trees after a rain session, an other reason why spraying them is no good.

senting is very important for these animals social hiarchy, you need to understand this as a keeper.

PE bathing is for black troats not prasinus, day and night!!

also they advised this mostly because peapoles are stupid and negligent, its only a tool for a deficient husbandry, however it is a good thing for this specie as it helps the animals bond with the keeper, a wise and safer thing with a 5ft lizard.

go to any forest dig a few buckets of dirt, fill your cage with a good foot or two plant a few nice plants and a little grass and you have the base of a life suporting cage.
simple if your substrata holds humidity and suport flora it will suport fauna. add to this proper light heat and your in buisiness. in my cages even a freshly cut branch grows new leaves and all.

do the test and you will see that a 25w bulb will produce more then 130f 6in under your dome, and should the lizard touch it he wont burn, whats the diference with your curent set up?
major!! too much energy means your lizard is constantly fighting dehydration, yes even if you keep the cage wet, you can die of dehydration in the middle of a lac if its too hot for your metabolism, diference monitors will take longer then you to die.

if you cant make an other cage now, switch your lightbulb to a 25w imediatly, stop disturbing the monitors and ofer them places to hide and feel secure, then you will see them start to feed with gusto, and then you will know they are out of danger.

dont read any fn book writen by some guy how hatched one ramdom cluch from one of the easyest species to keep. the guy looked at me face to face and said the lizards just droped eggs and I hatched them. then when confronted deniyed everything.

I dont care about these imbeciles, I keep animals for fun, its a personal thing. I dont care what peapoles do or say.

if you need to read and learn thers only one place and its FRs
he is the only real deal and pioneered varanid husbandry, even I who kept them almost 30 years none stop have learned so much and improuved my husbandry from reading FR.

the grate lords (Horn,hidemuller,bohm ext) of varanids are still in the blues regarding husbandry in comparaison. PERIOD

thanks again,

Sorry for my ignorance, but who/what is FR?

As for the bulb, I'll do as you say. Does it have to be a halogen or just a regular 25w bulb?
I imagine it has to be positioned just a couple inches from the basking perch, right?

The whole dehydration thing makes a lot of sense.

I'll also cover the tubs with black plastic so the lizards can be less distracted with their surroundings.

Perhaps tomorrow or the day after I have the new cage. I was thinking about plastic plants only, is it bad?

Any pictures of an ideal setup for a hatchling, with these 25w bulbs?

FR is Frank Rates of varanus.net

25w regular bulbs the cheepest ones you can find.

I have only old photos from years ago on this site and will never again download photos on internet, as an amateur photographer I understand the value of my photographs witch many have been poblisised and some displayed without my consent in the netherlands notably and japan.
these scumbags will never again see anything from me.

here you see a young pair of adult crocs with one single 75w flood, that is enough for these tree monitors.

tree monitors dont have the same matabolic needs as land lumbers.

the other photo is a pair of niloticus they use all the heat this 65w bulb provides, if id house tree monitors in the same baril id use a deep dirt substrata and only a 25w.

raising nils in this condition alows for rapid growth and frequent changes why wood chips are prefered.
you dont push growth on tree monitors, they have very little fat storage and dehydrate faster then other species.

now I leave you with FR as I have other things to do (I am sailing for the moluccan sea in one month)

cheers

I couldn't find the 25w flood spotlamps and had to buy 50w. Those are really hot so I had them installed with a dimmer/rheostat.

Now there is no dome and the heat is far more focused to a single spot. With the dimmer I am still capable of keeping the basking spot at around 115F. The whole cage is now a bit darker because the flood lamps produce far more heatXlight when compared to the Exo Terra Sun Glos, I hope the monitors cheer up now.

Now that the heat focus is smaller I believe I'll be able to keep the humidity for much longer and the lizards well hydrated.

I just fixed this and I hope they react by eating more in the next couple days.

Any other comments are appreciated, Im reading everything very carefully. And I believe things have been improved at this point, as far as husbandry goes.

Here's the new lamps, the lid is completely cover with plastic with just a little hole for the lamp. The thermometer probes are in the perches just a couple inches from the lamps (as seen at the right tube):

Here's just a side view of the tube, showing the ventilation holes. There are holes on the other side as well. These are the only openings.

regular house 25w bulbs not halogen not flood just regular bulbs, no need for a dimmer, no need to wary or take readings.

cant be any simpler

but one more time things iv said got complicated by a keeper, the pint is KISS keep it simple stupid

Jobi,

Anyways it is now working exactly as you said. hot spot, humitidy right now 95% with no misting at all. It should get a bit dryier in a day or 2. I believe it is best to keep it a bit dryer to avoid harmful bacteria/fungus, just around 80%.

I did the change last night. This morning I saw them basking but now at lunch time they are hidden. Still didn't want to eat. I think they should be adjusting to normal activities/appetite in a day or 2. I hope, at least.

I also just finished covering the tubs with black plastic.

I don't see what else can I do other than wait for the bigger cages, keep water clean, keep a bowl with some crickets and let the lizards decide what to do.