Reptile & Amphibian Forums

How does 'het' work for king snakes...is it similar to boas? For example, some boa breeders say they can tell a het by its coloration, can the same be done with king snakes? And if so, how would you know if they were, say, het for albino? Anything anyone can tell me about king snake hets would be great, I can find nothing on them anywhere.

No you cannot see a recessive gene in king snakes, well at least not california kingsnakes. Now I have produced quite a few double hets that should have been normal looking and they weren't in the least. But since I produced them I know the genetics.

Now on dominant genes (high white) the males have a tendacy to be higher white than the females. But that is not an exact method either.

Kerby...
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in Floridana for certain morphs but it's not 100% and it takes a good experienced eye to see it. For example the Peanut butter hets have a certain look to them. But again not 100%. Amel hets are not discernable. But some hets can show the influence of the hidden gene. Just my opinion.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

>>Now on dominant genes (high white) the males have a tendacy to be higher white than the females. But that is not an exact method either.

I think this is an example of dimorphism Kerby........
Here's a few more I noticed over the years......

With Don Shores' wide striped Calkings the males seemed to have the nice wide stripe and the females weren't as wide.....

The first highly speckled Alterna were all females.....

The first ultra granite Mex Mex were females.....

Female Ruthveni speckle out / darken more than the males.....

All high saddled classic Mex Mex are females....not all classic females are high saddled but the ones that have high saddles are females.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

there are no "markers" for hets in kingsnakes.
,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

there are no "markers" for hets in kingsnakes.
,,,,,,thomas davis

Ditto that.

What we have certain Florida kingsnakes are phenotypes from an origanting stock. Like the Peanut butter. Though the original PB hets may have a certain look. It losses that look once they are bred out to different stock/phenotypes/strains.

So as far as I know, there are no markers for recessive traits in kingsnakes-YET!
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www.Bluerosy.com

You are saying now that you can not guess which snake is probably HET for Peanut Butter?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

jorge,

They have a certain look or 'marker" to that "line". Most Flroda kings that are loacle specific have markers ( or look) from that area. Kinda like rosy boas from each hillside and rock formation is different. Those traits are not easily bred out. Even if you bred two different locale rosys together you could see the trait from each locale in the offspring. You have to look at the Florida kings pattern and color variations FROM EACH LOCALE are far greater than any other locality specific kingsnake.

You misunderstood and it would take a page or two here to fully describe what i am saying and I just don't have the time right now. that is why i don't post here very often anymore.

First thing you have to know is the peanut Butter gene has not been out for very long. So they have not been outbred very much. So yes, most PB hets you can tell which are from that line. but it is not a marker.

Since i popularized and bred the PB trait I have been working with them the longest and also bred them out the most. Nobody has bred as many or worked with that trait like i have. It takes a while to breed out a certain look in a Florida king. They all have a certain pattern and color anomalities within their populations. So the PB trait bred out 1x or even 2x, you can still tell the PB trait in a het. But the same thing holds true of other florida locales.
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www.Bluerosy.com

I agree with what you posted the second time. It seems you were for it before you were against it, lol. Here it's not rocket Science. Here are two pictures one is het for Peanut Butter, one is not. I bet even a wannabe like me can tell the difference.

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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I agree with what you posted the second time. It seems you were for it before you were against it, lol. Here it's not rocket Science. Here are two pictures one is het for Peanut Butter, one is not. I bet even a wannabe like me can tell the difference.

The second snake is obviously the PB het.

We have to determine what the definition of the term "marker" means. A marker could be two things. the first is a line bred trait. since FL kings are unique when they are line bred from a small founding stock it is easy to tell on some. Most we don't pay attention to. But the PB it is easier to tell because they originated from a small group and they all passed down a certain look 9markers0 if you will. It does not apply to a PB being a het. just that it is a line bred trait and it could be a possible het PB.

Also i don't know if you are aware but the original first het PB's males were black and only the females had the rust coilor in the het Normal versions.

I have bred the PB to Ghost (hypo X axanthic) and I can see all 3 traits in the hets. When those hets were bred back it beomes less obvious what line it could be from as all are diluted from the original founding stock.

I also bred the PB to the snow (anery and lavender albino) and i could see all three of those phenotypes in the def het offspring. When i bred them back, again, it is harder to tell the difference.

Someone like me it is easier to tell with out bred outcrossed PB's. But that is because i produced lots of them and have nothing better to do than stare at these snakes for a long time. Same thing goies for other phenotypes i have been breeding for a number of years from fondation stock.

The PB look is easier to tell the difference since they have a a rusty brown color to them. But I have also been breeding New England axanthics for 15 yars and since breed ing them to other traits i can still pick out which are the 50% line bred trait of the NEW England axanthic.

Are these markers in the truest sense. NO, they are not. But Zflorida kings are unique compered to other snakes because patterns and color are different from different lines. But it is not 100% scince like a true marker. Their markers are from reproducing the "line" which is very different amongst Florida kings when compared to let's say...tricolors.

i belive in BP you have true markers that no matter how many times bred out they still carry that marker.

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www.Bluerosy.com

I couldn't figure out why you said in the other post that their were no markers. Call it what you want, the OP wanted to know if there was anyway to recognize a het by color. I said in Floridana there are some strains which do give a certain look, thanks.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

UM, not sure I get it. If you breed them and they are 100% het they have a definate look...but if you outcross them and they become POSSIBLE hets its the dilution that makes the markers difficult?? UH, NO, This means that there are no markers. Markers is a on/off not increasing probability, to me at least. The whole idea of markers is to seperate hets from possible hets so variation has nothing to do with it.

UM, not sure I get it. If you breed them and they are 100% het they have a definate look...but if you outcross them and they become POSSIBLE hets its the dilution that makes the markers difficult?? UH, NO, This means that there are no markers. Markers is a on/off not increasing probability, to me at least. The whole idea of markers is to seperate hets from possible hets so variation has nothing to do with it.

You are correct!
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www.Bluerosy.com

>>How does 'het' work for king snakes...is it similar to boas? For example, some boa breeders say they can tell a het by its coloration, can the same be done with king snakes? And if so, how would you know if they were, say, het for albino? Anything anyone can tell me about king snake hets would be great, I can find nothing on them anywhere.

I haven't seen a visual het in kingsnakes....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

So if theres no visual markers, they would have to be proven by being bred and producing the strain....what would the odds be of matching two hets up? Also certain traits you would need both parents to carry the gene, but what traits can be passed on without a matching gene from another parent?

Well, if the breeder kept accurate records then you would know what the knigsnake is het for or possible het for (need to breed to confirm). I know I have wholesaled out hundreds of cal kings that were hets, double hets and some triple hets......so who knows lol

But in cal kings striping IS NOT recessive, but it is dominate. High White IS NOT RECESSIVE, no matter what you read on the classifieds LOL

Kerby...
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