Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I finally decided to try a mouse tail on the one hatchling that isn't eating, since nothing else has worked. I worked the thick end of the tail into his mouth, and pushed until about half of it was down. He finished swallowing it on his own.

It hardly seems like there would be much nourishment in a tail . . .

In the month and a half since they have hatched, the non-eater is now noticeably smaller than the others.
-----
Kent

0.1 Hypomelanistic striped cornsnake
0.0.3 Hypo (het lavender, striped) cornsnake hatchlings
0.0.5 Normal (het hypo, lavender, striped) cornsnake hatchlings
1.2 Gray-banded kingsnakes, blairs phase
1.1 Oregon rubber boas

Yeah, I never had much long term luck with mouse tails. I would try my best to get it to tease feed on a whole pink. Just be persistent and get it to strike and hold onto the pink head then very carefully let go and hopefully it will swallow on its own.

I haven't been able to get it to take a pinky, even with tease feeding. The strange thing is that it ate one pinky about a month ago, right after its first shed. Nothing since then.

I figured at this point, a mouse tail couldn't hurt. At least get a little nourishment, and hopefully get its appetite going.
-----
Kent

0.1 Hypomelanistic striped cornsnake
0.0.3 Hypo (het lavender, striped) cornsnake hatchlings
0.0.5 Normal (het hypo, lavender, striped) cornsnake hatchlings
1.2 Gray-banded kingsnakes, blairs phase
1.1 Oregon rubber boas

Hey Kent, I dont disagree with that for sure. I had a baby albino nelsons I couldnt get to feed and had to mouse tail him for several months. I tried the pinky tease thing and stuff, but no luck. Eventually he succumbed. I think in emergency and short term situations tailing is great. However, I have not had any long term success on it though.

>>Hey Kent, I dont disagree with that for sure. I had a baby albino nelsons I couldnt get to feed and had to mouse tail him for several months. I tried the pinky tease thing and stuff, but no luck. Eventually he succumbed. I think in emergency and short term situations tailing is great. However, I have not had any long term success on it though.

that's why I use pinkie heads. more nourishment
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes...No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

If it took the mouse tail the second half then I would stick with that. The idea is to give it enough to keep it alive untill it's feeding response kicks in. I had a miami that took a pink right after shed also and then decided my pinkies aren't good enough for him, lol. So I tease fed him yesterday, and he took it down. Mouse tails probably have more sustanence then you think. It has some bone so it will get calcium but, not meant for long term maintenance.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

How long do you think I should give it to digest? It was the whole tail of an adult mouse. (It is easy enough to cut off the tail before I feed my adult snakes.)

It occured to me that an adult mouse tail would be more difficult to digest than a pinky (which has hardly any bone).
-----
Kent

0.1 Hypomelanistic striped cornsnake
0.0.3 Hypo (het lavender, striped) cornsnake hatchlings
0.0.5 Normal (het hypo, lavender, striped) cornsnake hatchlings
1.2 Gray-banded kingsnakes, blairs phase
1.1 Oregon rubber boas

Yeah you want to get a tail that is not too big but big enough to do some good. What I do after any assist feeding even tease feeding is give them enough time to get hungry again, 7 to 10 days. Of course taking into consideration the size and health of the snake. Then always offer a new born pinky in a delicup or brown bag to give him every chance to start eating alone. Then if he refuses repeat the proceedure that worked last time.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

>>I finally decided to try a mouse tail on the one hatchling that isn't eating, since nothing else has worked. I worked the thick end of the tail into his mouth, and pushed until about half of it was down. He finished swallowing it on his own.
>>
>>It hardly seems like there would be much nourishment in a tail . . .
>>
>>In the month and a half since they have hatched, the non-eater is now noticeably smaller than the others.
>>-----
>>Kent
>>

I use pinkie heads instead of mouse tails.
I when I decide it is time I will gently "assist" feed a pinkie head to the hatchling.
Use the nose of the pinkie to help work the mouth open, work the head into the mouth and use a small wooden dowel to coax it deep enough to shut the mouth and work it down far enough to prevent regurge. Then next time I feed I will place the hatchling with a pinkie head in a deli dish and leave them for a while. If it doesn't work I will force that head down it. I will continue this process until the hatchling begins to eat on it's own. There have been a few times where the hatchling goes long enough without eating on it's own that I have graduated up to feeding them a whole pinkie in the manner described above. Once I start force or 'assist" feeding they eventually switch over and eat on their own. I've had it take as little as a week to as long as three months to get them eating on their own.
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes...No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

That is a VERY informative post. I have a non-feeding baby corn that has ignored every trick that I have come across. He is active, but metabolism must be slowing him down even more. Going to try the pinkie head in just a few minutes... Thanks again for the post!

I would have to say first of all that a tail is better than nothing so good job with that. What I have done before is actually use legs from a small fuzzy or hopper. Gross? yes, but I use the bone of the leg to easily open the mouth of the snake and massage it in down the throat of the snake. Usually once the leg is half way in the mouth the snake will take the rest on its own. A stubborn few I have had to massage the leg down as far as I could go before the snake had no choice but to eat it. If you can do the leg thing I think it might have more meat and nutrient to it. But again if it will take tails that is better than nothing

Allen Sheehan

for your responses.

I don't mean to open a can of worms but... sometimes I wonder how hard I really want to try to get this snake feeding. Questions that come to mind:

Is there something wrong with it anyway?
Is it going to always be a problem feeder? I don't want to use it for breeding, and probably will want to find a new home for it eventually.
Would I be better off using my time to take care of the others that are feeding well?

As some have posted, some hatchlings were never meant to make it, but would have just been food for something else in the wild.

Just thinking and wondering, that's all.
-----
Kent

0.1 Hypomelanistic striped cornsnake
0.0.3 Hypo (het lavender, striped) cornsnake hatchlings
0.0.5 Normal (het hypo, lavender, striped) cornsnake hatchlings
1.2 Gray-banded kingsnakes, blairs phase
1.1 Oregon rubber boas

>>for your responses.
>>
>>I don't mean to open a can of worms but... sometimes I wonder how hard I really want to try to get this snake feeding. Questions that come to mind:
>>
>>Is there something wrong with it anyway?
>>Is it going to always be a problem feeder? I don't want to use it for breeding, and probably will want to find a new home for it eventually.
>>Would I be better off using my time to take care of the others that are feeding well?
>>
>>As some have posted, some hatchlings were never meant to make it, but would have just been food for something else in the wild.
>>
>>Just thinking and wondering, that's all.
>>-----
>>Kent
>>

The simple answer is...Is it worth it TO YOU to spend the time saving it?
I've gone through it with several snakes and have found that once they start eating on their own they never turn back.
The problem of creating poor feeders is a concern but I'm not sure how much this passes on.
I've had monster feeders produce non-feeder hatchlings and I've had non-feeder hatchlings grow up to produce great eaters.
I don't know...some automatically say don't breed them if they started out as non-feeders but I bet there are a lot more people then would like to admit who have had that special hatchling start out as a non-feeder only to get them eating, raising them up and using them to create more of those "special" morphs.
look at bloodreds...a lot of bloodreds started out as non-feeders and people worked with them and got them eating so they could breed them. You can't tell me all the early non-feeder bloods were tossed or only kept as pets when they matured.
I think a random non-feeder raised and bred to a life long good feeder is less problematic then breeding non-feeders to non-feeders.
anyway I am just rambling and have only stated my opinion with no scientific backing so what do I know?
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes...No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

Well you know more than I do, since you have raised alot more snakes than I have. Thats why I "opened the can of worms", to get responses from those with more experience than I.

Thanks for your input.
-----
Kent

0.1 Hypomelanistic striped cornsnake
0.0.3 Hypo (het lavender, striped) cornsnake hatchlings
0.0.5 Normal (het hypo, lavender, striped) cornsnake hatchlings
1.2 Gray-banded kingsnakes, blairs phase
1.1 Oregon rubber boas

Tough call Kent. I know some breeders who REFUSE to work with nonfeeders feeling they would only contribute that feeding response to future generations if bred, or based on volume of babies they produce simply have no time to deal with it. Me not being a big breeder, I tend to try and save the non feeders to a degree, but dont stress it if all fails and they dont make it. Like Jimmy stated, its what matters TO YOU!!

>> I have a few different people who either don't breed or breed at a small enough level that will take my non-feeders. They have the time and willingness to work with them. I will sometimes get pinkies in trade for the non-feeders or maybe get a few dollars each for them and sometimes just give them away so someone willing to try to save them.
Check around you might just find someone who wants your non-feeders.
Now having said this I HATE what some breeders do...they just throw all of their "un-wanted" hatchlings, non-feeders and all, in big batches and sell them in lots to pet stores and other places that buy large lots. These end up in PetCo, PetSmart and other chain stores where some unknowing customer buys them only to get them home and have them die because they won't eat.
other then to people who specifically want to work with the non-feeders nothing goes out of here that hasn't eaten at least three or four meals F/T only. Even when I've sold big lots...all feeders
sorry..I'll get off my soap box now
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes...No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

Jimmy, I totally agree. Even when I sell non-feeders or out of the egg animals at reduced cost to folks that are fully aware of the situation, I feel a bit bad and uneasy. I would much prefer to only sell established F/T feeders, wholesale or not!!