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a little Peave in Anaheim short report

Earthworks Sep 12, 2010 09:03 AM

ok so im having a great time here at the show in anaheim but a few mild dissapointments...first of all i cant find exactly what i want at the price i want! lol but obviously i cant really complain about that im pretty picky...but heres the real one!

Noone or almost noone in regards to the vendors seems to have a scale handy with them! when we start talking about these valuable morphs and pretty significant purchases how is it not more important then to just not be able to provide and/prove weights on these guys!?!? in my mind its comparable to selling a car without an odometer. its a simple service to provide to you customers, so pls do. its not even a case of me nor neccisarily believing what they tell me as the weights although i see no problem with verification, but i good number of the breeders dont even seem to have an estimate recorded anywhere! they just eyeball the animal and say ohhh he/shes about XXX grams... sorry for the rant it just seems to hold more importance to me then it does to some of the sellers and i hope somone out there agrees with me so im not a crazy person lol.

the show is super fun though, seeing some really cool crystal combos and such. prices are nowhere near as competitive as i remember in daytona but products and animals are moving very well, lots of sales taking place across the herp board. cant help but have a good time and be inmpressed by the volume turning over and interest at the show, with daytona having the smaller venue now this one is definently a contender and im seeing more actual purchases then i recall a few years ago in daytona (important to note i havent been to the daytona show the last 2 runnings)

my search continues tomorrow, seems unlikely ill find exactly what im looking for and ill more likely end up with something thats just usefull and i cant say no to

Replies (47)

Marcial Sep 12, 2010 09:22 AM

Weights are used in the sale of animals over the internet to give potential buyers an idea of size when the animal cannot be seen in person.

If you are spending money on "expensive morphs", you should be able to look at it and have a good enough idea of its size. I mean, is a 125 gram morph worth any more than a 100 gram snake of the same morph? I don't think so.

Sorry, but I don't agree with your logic here.

Earthworks Sep 12, 2010 09:47 AM

lol ok i guess i am just nuts. still what if were talking a 1000gram female vs a 1200 gram female, a difference that can be quite difficult to dicern visually since some BPs carry weight quite differently aka stalky/long but could easily make the differene between being breedable the comign season or not...

oh well if it is just me i still think it would be nice to have somethign to verify with or at least good records on hand of each snake for sale should be considered good sales practices...

Earthworks Sep 12, 2010 09:49 AM

wow sry for the brutal spelling, just woke up.

Luke9815 Sep 12, 2010 02:27 PM

I'd have to agree with Marcial. Internet sales are what the weights are good for since pictures can often misrepresent an animals size. If you're at a show and are able to see and hold the animal before you buy it you can estimate a weight. Whether its a baby or 1000 grams. As a breeder/vendor, most know the approximate weights of the snakes and you can see the size so exact weights shouldn't be completely necessary.
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Luke Martin
Bronze Serpent Reptiles

EVILMORPHGOD Sep 12, 2010 02:35 PM

We are in fact talking about LIVING ANIMALS! Not a car and its associated mileage.

I hate doing weights on snakes.... I basically avoid it. The weights change all the time and trying to keep up with it can be impossible when you a decent number of snakes.

Just don't quite understand what you are trying to say. The breeders that you are talking to and seeing their accomplishments are providing much of the excitement and interest.

Feeling as though they should have detailed records of feeding and weights seems enough to make me FREAK OUT and CRY. These shows can be incredibly stressful on the breeders. The amount of effort it takes to display their animals and get things to a reasonable level requires some serious effort.

Maybe just a bit over the top....

SATAN

>>I'd have to agree with Marcial. Internet sales are what the weights are good for since pictures can often misrepresent an animals size. If you're at a show and are able to see and hold the animal before you buy it you can estimate a weight. Whether its a baby or 1000 grams. As a breeder/vendor, most know the approximate weights of the snakes and you can see the size so exact weights shouldn't be completely necessary.
>>-----
>>Luke Martin
>> Bronze Serpent Reptiles
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Pitoon Sep 12, 2010 04:03 PM

small vendor or big vendor....it takes work and time to prepare everything, get to the show, set up, stand on your feet talking all day, then break it all down....and then take off back home!

seems like this person has never been on the other side of the table?!?!?!

and just think i sell rats, mice, and ASF's at the shows i attend.....

Pitoon

>>We are in fact talking about LIVING ANIMALS! Not a car and its associated mileage.
>>
>>
>>I hate doing weights on snakes.... I basically avoid it. The weights change all the time and trying to keep up with it can be impossible when you a decent number of snakes.
>>
>>Just don't quite understand what you are trying to say. The breeders that you are talking to and seeing their accomplishments are providing much of the excitement and interest.
>>
>>Feeling as though they should have detailed records of feeding and weights seems enough to make me FREAK OUT and CRY. These shows can be incredibly stressful on the breeders. The amount of effort it takes to display their animals and get things to a reasonable level requires some serious effort.
>>
>>Maybe just a bit over the top....
>>
>>
>>SATAN
>>
>>>>I'd have to agree with Marcial. Internet sales are what the weights are good for since pictures can often misrepresent an animals size. If you're at a show and are able to see and hold the animal before you buy it you can estimate a weight. Whether its a baby or 1000 grams. As a breeder/vendor, most know the approximate weights of the snakes and you can see the size so exact weights shouldn't be completely necessary.
>>>>-----
>>>>Luke Martin
>>>> Bronze Serpent Reptiles
>>-----
>>"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.
-----
Homepage
My BLOG
2010 European Shows

RoyalVariations Sep 12, 2010 08:58 PM

I agree, unless an animal is "malnourished or abnormally thin" the weight question is a non issue unless you are purchasing an adult animal to breed “soon”. Most breeders with allot of snakes cannot really afford to heavily feed every animal they are selling. A very good "maintenance diet” is just fine. The new owner can feed their newly acquired animals as much as they like. As you pointed out, their weight does fluctuate. I have purchased from many of the "well known" breeders over the years and most of the animals arrive, "average weight" for their size. I am talking about hatchlings and yearlings for example. A few of them appeared slightly under fed, “not badly”. They obviously were fed a maintenance diet. They ALL were just fine and began to adjust to my feeding schedule. It was not an issue. I acclimate them, quarantine them and feed them as much as I like based on what I feel is appropriate. Lately I have held back from posting certain animals as available because it seems most people want them fed "more" before they purchase them. Actually it is very frustrating and not necessary but it seems to be the trend.
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Proud supporter of USARK and Kingsnake.com
“We stand together or we fall apart”

Kyle
www.royalvariations.com

"be safe, be happy and dont let anyone make you afraid"
David Coverdale

pfan151 Sep 12, 2010 10:48 PM

>>Lately I have held back from posting certain animals as available because it seems most people want them fed "more" before they purchase them. Actually it is very frustrating and not necessary but it seems to be the trend.
>>-----
>>Proud supporter of USARK and Kingsnake.com
>>“We stand together or we fall apart”
>>
>>Kyle
>>www.royalvariations.com
>>
>>"be safe, be happy and dont let anyone make you afraid"
>> David Coverdale

Definitely agree with that. Anytime I sell a yearling a lot of people responding to my ads seem to expect them to be 900g.
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John Vandegrift

JYohe Sep 12, 2010 02:41 PM

800 grams CAN breed....

4000 grams is better to breed....

......eyeball it.......
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................JY

JYohe Sep 12, 2010 02:39 PM

don't know you at all

my thought...you whine the dealers ahev no idea how much an animal weighs....

you don't either....

scale at the show...wow...I don't weigh them here....only for the ads because people buying offline want 42 1/3 pics from every angle including inside and then the weight...the food item needed...age...smell, and everything else...

....see it, know it's size, price, buy it...or don't...LOL

at a show you can see it.....correct?....

...what are you looking for?.....maybe we can find it....then weigh it...?...

(not a rant....but you are as bed as them you talka bout)..have fun....

...
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................JY

Earthworks Sep 12, 2010 04:33 PM

wow...lol my post wasnt intended to bash on any breeders or dealers, just a personal opinion, when seen from a breeder/dealers point of view i get it theres a ton to deal with already. i see no need for anyone to be negative though about me wanting or needing more info on an animal that ill be spending 3-5 thousand dollars on, i hardly think its wrong to want to know its feeding habbits, growth rate based on hatch date ect... i dont have neccisarily the level of skill and experience as some of you and i find keeping good records and knowing the statistics on my animals and potential purchases to be very useful in optimizing there care and breeding. also why should somone buying live at a show be deserved of any less information than someone online?

once again it was not my intention to tell anyone how to do business just something i thought would be helpful to myself, for those of you of the pretentous attitude of "well your a moron and should know better if your spending that kind of money", thankyou, your doing wonders for encouraging the growth and vitality of this industry... however almost all of the vendors/breeders i talked to were very helpful and answered any and all questions i had regardless of how amatuer some of them may have seemed to them, i had a good time and i think the vendors i dealt with appriciated the reletively large amount of business i provided them. a little customer service goes a long way...

ballgraff Sep 12, 2010 04:42 PM

Well said, I completely agree with you. If you are purchasing a snake, any snake, not just an expensive one; How hard is it to throw it on a scale? It literally takes seconds. The scale I have is pretty mobile. Weights can make a difference. While I am pretty confident in "eyeing" out a weight, I don't think purchasing a snake from a breeder is "Self-Serve". Customer service should be high on the priority list, especially with m ore and more people breeding. Just my opinion.

Eric

Earthworks Sep 12, 2010 05:21 PM

lol thx but ive given up on the scale issue, just be able to tell me "she/hes about xxx grams i weighed him/her xxx date, she/he is a good/bad feeder on live/ft xxx and eats weekly/bi weekly ect...hatch date is nice to have too so i get some picture of the growth rate.

i guess what set me off is when inquireing about a $4000 dollar animal being told..."well its a 2010, eats rat pups pretty good...not sure if itl eat f/t..." and that was the extent of the info available, is this a 2 month old good eater or a 11 month old flake? i mean 2010 encompasses a large range.

to the 'dont talk about animals like an object/item' crowd, i appologize, i love the animals and keeping/caring for them, however when we get into the territory of thousands of dollars it just naive to ignore the implications/cold hard fact that a potential purchaser may view it as more than a pretty pet. i could fire back by saying keeping tens of thousands of animals is just as impersonal as stastistics, however i see no problem with that either, it doesnt mean they dont love what there doing and hell i would probly do it if it were feasable to me.

well anyways, thx to all the cool people at the show for making it very enjoyable, picked up some cool new toys that im very excited about.

PHLdyPayne Sep 12, 2010 06:02 PM

I don't think it's over the top or 'wrong' to want as much information about a particular animal, whether its a $10 snake or a $100 000 designer morph. The whole advantage of a reptile show and meeting vendors/breeders is the ability to talk to them directly, ask questions, learn about the feeding/health of the animal you are interested in. Asking its current weight doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Guessing weight isn't very accurate...but like any 'skill' some are better at it than others. I doubt there are too many breeders who can accurately tell the difference between a 150g snake and a 200g snake...though the 50g difference may not mean much, but for a very young snake it could mean the difference between life or death. However weight should not be a major factor in deciding whether to buy a particular snake.

The overall experience with the vendor (does he make an effort to establish good customer relationships, or just push for the sale? Does he answer all your questions in a way that is satisfactory to you, etc. If he has a feed/weight card or paper guarantee, definitely beneficial as well.) Providing that little extra is also a way for vendors to get a customer who may decide to go for another vendor who has a lower price or has more info.

I can also see the vendors side of things, going to a show is a very stressful time, especially vendors who have some distance to travel. All the prep work needed (packing up all the snakes, labeling deli cups, loading up the car/truck/van) Making sure they didn't forget anything...driving to the site, getting up really early to do the set up (I have done set up and tear downs for booths held by my local reptile group, then interact with the public, answering questions letting them touch a snake, hold it etc.) IT takes alot out of you.

It is a good idea for breeders to keep track of feeding etc....but I can see it can be alot of extra work (though if 'cue cards' are taped to the outside of each bin...can't see it being hard to mark in '1 f/t pink rat - eaten - 'date' ' after each feeding/cleaning. Or if all snakes are fed on set days, it can be easier...just a yes/no under 'fed?' and just have the hatch date, or first feeding date, if food is offered every 7 days or whatever schedule is used.) I think this type of 'extra' effort for higher end morphs would be worth it. I would hate to spend $1000 or more on a snake who has always refused food, or is underweight etc..or if the vendor can't remember what it ate last or when.

Huge breeders I can see having more trouble keeping track...but I think the bigger breeders have a greater need to keep accurate records. If they are breeding 20 different morphs and combination of those morphs...including recessive hets...knowing what goes into each animal, plus feeding etc of the babies...and knowing which animal is which is very important. Its a pain and of course alot of extra work, but I feel it shows more determination and organization in the breeder, if they take that extra tine. It can also be reputation damaging to not have good records...I know I felt a little less confident about a breeder who posted images of several of his combo babies on here awhile ago and state in the post he wasn't sure what was in the animal, or if it was this or that visual morph...If he can't even identify what he bred...kind of makes me feel less confident in buying his animals (not that I could afford any of the combo's shown in his posts). Of course for a post in a forum, its possible he just didn't have the info on hand (at the computer) or after taking x amount of pictures, he simply lost track of which picture represented which animal...but the actual bin the animal is in, has a detailed label.

Back on the weight/scale issue...I don't think its as important at the show to have an accurate weight. As people should have an idea of what they are buying (ie did their homework on care/husbandry about the animal) they would have seen pictures online or in books of what babies or adults should generally look like. Thus, if the animal is a little underweight or the weight 'guess' is off..if the animal is healthy and feeding, there is higher chance it can gain weight in its new owner's care. I would be more concerned if you are looking for a breeding weight and want to get it established in a new home and cooled asap...for the season, and if it was 'guessed' at 1600g and turns out to be 1200g....it could make a huge difference. But in general, though certain people may have other reasons to get a more accurate weight...being off by 20% shouldn't make much difference in regards to animal health (unless the stated weight is of an animal that is noticeable underweight already...far greater chance of a severely underweight animal to die before it can recover from the stress of being brought to a show, then a new home).

but in the end, if weight is really important for you to know...bring your own digital scale. They are small enough to slip into a backpack or even a basic grocery bag. The vendor may even have an empty deli dish for you to 'zero out' so you can weight snake and deli dish together and get the snake's weight alone.

(sorry for the long ramble...this came out far longer than I initially intended)
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PHLdyPayne

Forum Princess

JYohe Sep 12, 2010 07:34 PM

ok....we should tell you everything (and we do usually if we own the sbnake and not just jobbers)...no sweat, carrying a scale is out there....

on this note....YOU then should pay what we want...I have over half the people lowballing my prices even though I mark most all the stuff at wholesale...I should know...I sell to other jobbers all the time...and at half price I still get the sob stories....
pay for it....

I ask for cheaper prices all the time..trust me..I ask always almost....but I do not whine...and if I bug someone to go lower ,I damnwell buy it then....I don't talk smack all day in email then Oh I changed my mind and found a different snake lower...bullcrap....we deal you lower you stick with it...and people ALL the time walk away or do not email or even show up at a meeting place....

famous line.." I'll be right back, hold it for me"....

yea.....sure....

good luck...............

(I keep birth date ,parent numbers,grandparents usually, eating and shedding charts)

.
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................JY

BuzzardBall Sep 12, 2010 08:54 PM

Amen brother!

pfan151 Sep 12, 2010 10:53 PM

>>I ask for cheaper prices all the time..trust me..I ask always almost....but I do not whine...and if I bug someone to go lower ,I damnwell buy it then....I don't talk smack all day in email then Oh I changed my mind and found a different snake lower...bullcrap....we deal you lower you stick with it...and people ALL the time walk away or do not email or even show up at a meeting place....
>>

>>................JY

LOL that's always a good one. I get offers all the time, agree to the offer that the person suggested, and then they come back and say will you take $50 less? Always makes me laugh.
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John Vandegrift

jason Sep 13, 2010 08:04 AM

I've had people do that, and I've also had them make me a low offer that I accept (my choice, not faulting them), then they pull the cash out of their pocket...

"Oh, I don't have that much on me...will you take this much?"

My favorite line ever, I have gotten it a few times:

"I'm a (student/teacher/educator/insert title here), can I have it for free?"
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www.jasonrbartolettreptiles.webs.com

BuzzardBall Sep 13, 2010 08:28 AM

I can trump that! How bout' when you both agree to a price, they give you the cash AND... it's short! "Hey, you don't have enough here" "Oh, I thought you said... blah, blah" I had a prominant poster on THIS forum (no names please) do that to me years ago! Haven't dealt w/him since!

jason Sep 13, 2010 12:41 PM

Had that happen just a few months ago.
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www.jasonrbartolettreptiles.webs.com

JYohe Sep 13, 2010 05:31 PM

and the make a deal on three snakes then come back and say this one was such and such right....as they hand you money for one snake....umm...scumbag female with low cut shirt......I'm not that stupid...........(scumbag attitude and life not looks)..LOL....
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................JY

JYohe Sep 13, 2010 05:29 PM

they pull all the cash from their pocket and say "I got $7 left will that get me a corn"???.(10$ corn)....

I love to ask...where do you live....you got 7$ ....and you need to drive home and not to mention you might want to eat??? I know I do....(I don't leave home without hundreds usually ,checkbook and credit cards (with 0$ balance owed).....

love it when they reply..."oh , I live in NJ/or?NY...my buddy came with me, I'll just make him buy gas...."

note to stupid people...your dumbass buddy is spending his last $7 too and he thinks you can buy gas....

also...they lie...they have cash yet lie lie lie...I hate people so much.....

..........

and always....if I sell more I'll be back and get that, could you hold it for me.....(um ,yea...I can see you right in front of me and like, you never came back)...I hold nadda thing...

....
let's not talk about snakes fried in cars,....."it died"...
(in 10 minutes)
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................JY

paulbuckley Sep 15, 2010 01:00 PM

my particular favorite - someone says "will you take a payment plan on this animal?", i'll respond "maybe - what did you have in mind?", then they write back with a specific schedule, and i say "ok, sure". 90% of the time after i say ok i'll work with you on that, they just disappear.

also, anyone who asks for extra pics (why is it always on the $50 animal), they also disappear.

JYohe Sep 12, 2010 07:28 PM

my one thought was, they can't tell me the weight, and neither could you...don't whine about something you do also...

as for shows....I talk and inform, no matter how stupid people are (and we can usually tell from behind or front of a table)...
I talk and talk and use time to tell them what they want and need to know.......even if they won't finally make the purchase and take a $100 ultramel lavender corn off my hands for $10....trust me...I work the table....

I can't tell weights...and don't care to
I never palpated an ovum inside a ball
I never candle eggs
I don't weigh eggs
I use cheap incubators (4 better than 1 when it dies)
I hatched 150 balls so far this year...some cool stuff...some I can't tell what they are yet...LOL

big enough to breed.....you can just tell....

do you want to or need to spend the money on it?...it's all up to you......I buy alot of stuff sight unseen and hope it turns out what I want...it usually does....and yes...thousand$...

have fun....carry a scale next time....please come to my table...I will thoroughly enjoy it when you pull the scale out....we need a fun day...shows are boring at times.....

....
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................JY

Luke9815 Sep 12, 2010 08:43 PM

If its THAT important to you to know the weight...bring a scale with you. People who have hundreds or thousands of babies a year normally don't bother to weigh the snake. You can look at it and usually tell. 50 grams won't make a difference...if its close to death you can tell...if its healthy and eating you can tell.
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Luke Martin
Bronze Serpent Reptiles

JYohe Sep 13, 2010 03:42 PM

I have never seen a scale at a show....in 20 years......

.....I have seen people saying it weighs this and that....and clearly lie the whole time....

....I trust noone....

and I never weigh......LOL
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................JY

reedsreptiles Sep 17, 2010 01:47 AM

lol i am a vendor at our local shows and i 99% of teh time carry a scale with me i guess im the only one that hides one under my table. now im not a big breeder but i have had alot of people ask me weights so i figure what does it hurt to bring it it has made me sales before and it has made a differance for me to bring it withought the couple sales i made for being able to prove a weight i have got to pay for my table in stead of owe at the end plus if i see a snake i want i figure it dont hurt to have it with me. i can tell by looking a snake is no where near breeding size or is close or well over but its just one of them things i toss in my box so at the hillsborow show next weekend ill have my scale hidden under my table lol

adamjeffery Sep 12, 2010 05:05 PM

when i was first getting into balls ad was looking for breedable female normals i took my scale with me. i went around and weighed what was available and bought the biggest ones. i also take my own probes and lube and disinfectant with me. if a breeder has a problem with me the buyer doing things the way i see fit then they are not a breeder i want to buy from. i have had breeders say they didnt want me probing their snake but they were willing to do it for me in front of me. i can understand that choice as you have no idea if the buyer knows how to do it properly or not. i dont trust snakes that i havnt sexed my delf or in front of me. i dont trust popping unless buying a male.
adam jeffery
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" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

PHLdyPayne Sep 12, 2010 06:09 PM

Good advice...and I agree that not all vendors are going to let a buyer probe/pop their snakes, for the exact reason you indicated. Not all buyers will know how to do either technique correctly. But I never had any trouble with vendors checking the sex via probing or popping infront of me.

I certainly don't trust my own ability to pop or probe..but I am an amateur at both techniques...Either that or all the animals I have that I tried to do either, are in fact females LOL as I haven't gotten any other result and I don't have any males right now to compare to.

Checked a video on youtube on probing a ball python...but neither of the two ball pythons I have who came to me unsexed...were anywhere near as cooperative as the ball in the video (it stayed loosely balled up...mine keep trying to slither away...)
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PHLdyPayne

Forum Princess

zefdin Sep 12, 2010 08:54 PM

~np!

pythonregius35 Sep 12, 2010 06:05 PM

If ya have raised enuff of them, you should be able to guess the weight fairly close by size it self! Don't know, just me.

BuzzardBall Sep 12, 2010 07:21 PM

Agree! If I'm buying a snake and have the date and year it was hatched/born and can hold it in my hand, I don't need grams!

zefdin Sep 12, 2010 08:52 PM

If you want the weight of the snake you are paying good, hard earned dollars to buy, as the customer, you have every right to request it. If someone, in this economy, is so well off that they cant pack a $10 WalMart scale and accomodate your request, then you have every right to WALK AWAY and go somewhere else. Whats the big deal? There are a million snakes...buy it from someone that will weigh it for you if that makes you happy. Where I come from the customer is ALWAYS right and I will do what it takes (within reason) to make the customer happy and seperate them from their cash...that way we are BOTH happy.

chonjoepython Sep 12, 2010 09:26 PM

Zefdin nailed it. Customer is always right. This particular customer wanted exact weight. Provide that weight or lose the sale. $30 dollar scale is that much more work to bring to your table? Giveth break! If a potential customer asks for a handstand, empty your pockets, tighten your belt and get to work. If that $30 scale sells you a $100 snake one time the scale paid for itself.

I personally would not ask for precise weight if purchasing in person. The snake either looks right, or it doesnt. It is the size Im looking for, or it isnt. But I am not every customer.
Cover your bases and hope for the best.

BuzzardBall Sep 12, 2010 10:26 PM

I've been in business for 25 years and I news for you! The customer ISN'T always right! Here's another one: "Sometimes the best deals are the ones you DON'T make"

Earthworks Sep 12, 2010 10:45 PM

thx for the advice/arguments on both sides, all good stuff, as the buyer i could take a scale ect and as the seller they could provide the basic info on hatchdate/feeding habbits. as i said the vendors i dealt with at the show were very helpful, there were only a few whos sales practices were a bit lackluster and it seemed to reflect in there volume.

Earthworks Sep 12, 2010 10:50 PM

maybe they were D grade? lol but i saw some 'dessert/enchi (tigers)' for sale at what would be considered competitive pricing for the morph, however the table they were at was a bit shabby and poorly represented and furthermore there were no other higher end morphs at the table, but the real thing is that they were very small/young but looked like browned out pastels, not the nice vibrant orange/black banded examples i see online from Pro Exotices ect... does it occur in the trade people misrepresenting animals at show ect looking for uneducated buyers or was this just a case of poor examples of the morph?

ArizonaB Sep 13, 2010 12:07 AM

Ok. Ill bite... me being the breeder, I listen to potential customers. If that potential customer would like me to weigh his potential future snake in front of him, ya know what, I would be more than happy to whip out my trusty and very dusty scale (that is hardly baggage) and weigh it. I personally don't really care for weight in snakes as much as the quality. But if that means that you would potentialy buy this snake off me, I would gladly provide that service to you. Sure, a lot of us get low balled and window shopped A LOT!!!! and I don't like it any more than the next guy, but that is THE NATURE OF THE BEAST!!! That's just how it goes like it or not.

Just my 2 cents.
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Brian Grosart
Forever Constrictors ©
foreverconstrictors@hotmail.com

BuzzardBall Sep 13, 2010 06:21 AM

You're right, it's not that big of a deal, if you have one! But this guy is complaining that NO ONE at the show, had a scale! There's a reason for that! Most normal people that can see and hold the animal, don't need a scale to determine if they're gonna make the purchase! And guess what, they're not going to start because one guy on a chat board is belly-aching! God, I wish my life was that simple!

JYohe Sep 13, 2010 05:38 PM

different line
different lighting
in shed
etc

......while I'm here again....the best snake in the world (ball) can stop eating the minute you pay for it....and the worst piece of crap that never ate can start eating again the minute you take it to a show or move it ....

had a snake...sold to a guy in Iraq...when he comes home etc...the thing was paid for...stopped eating the day he paid for it....bam...pain since...sucks....he got a different patterned one ...hopefully he is happy....(he got my holdback).......!!!

....
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................JY

adamjeffery Sep 13, 2010 06:35 PM

thats no lie about the moving them and they start eating deal. i have bought some great snakes from a buddy that he couldnt get to eat and the second they get here i set them up and offer food.. no waiting 3 days or nothing. set them up and offer food. i would say 50% eat and dont stop after that....weird
adam jeffery
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" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

BAM_Reptiles Sep 13, 2010 12:27 AM

agree
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www.bamreptiles.webs.com
www.facebook.com/bamreptiles

earthworks Sep 13, 2010 09:48 AM

clearly i should have stressed less my prefferece for exact weights/scales and more the lack of info available on some animals which is the real overall issue i was trying to convey just seemed to fixate on the whole scale thing. i feel any high end and hell why not low end animal for sale should be sold with pertinent info on hatch date and feeding habbits so say the least, some keepers like myself take a very anaylytical approach to care/breeding (actually some difficult species require flawless conditions) and i feel like providing as much info as possible brings a level of professionalism to the hobby that should be respected not looked down upon. i know of some breeders who keep perfect records of hatch dates feeding times/sizes and even go so far as deffication/urates tracking! i myself dont go that far but respect them for there organization and would wager it reflects in fairly impeccable care of there animals.

earthworks Sep 13, 2010 09:51 AM

also i would like to mention as this has taken this trend, im one of the guys who will ask for a lower price but generally ends up paying well over the market price for my animals with a stress on buying the superior quality examples of the morphs at optimum health, i feel like this will reflect in the quality of my offspring from said animals over if i had purchased lower end -mid grade stock.

BAM_Reptiles Sep 13, 2010 02:21 PM

no doubt, i was just agreeing with him in general about the customer not always being right.

i can understand wanting a weight on potential breeder sized females, but even with just 30 something hatchlings to sell this year, i wont be bringing weights/scales to the shows. im just not gunna go through all that extra hassle. i am one of those breeders who keeps perfect shed/feed/def records though. and those will be on hand. but eyeballing the weight when you can see/inspect/hold the animal in person, especially for hatchlings, is more than sufficient in my opinion.
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www.bamreptiles.webs.com
www.facebook.com/bamreptiles

mykee Sep 13, 2010 06:05 PM

"If that $30 scale sells you a $100 snake one time the scale paid for itself."
WRONG!
That $100 snake just sold itself. That and your (presumably) good reputation as a breeder. As a human being that respects himself and has a shred of dignity, I will not 'do handstands' to make a sale. Have some respect for yourself!
Your animals quality and your reputation sells your animals, not some stoopid scale that one silly boy out of five thousand potential customers wants me to weigh a snake with.
You want an animal weighed, you bring your OWN scale.
You want a pic taken with your fave breeder, you bring your OWN camera.
Same deal.
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www.strictlyballs.ca

JYohe Sep 13, 2010 05:33 PM

nope....she'd walk from you too then...

never seen one ....*(at show)

don't own one....

own 400 snakes ,no time to weigh them....
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................JY

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