Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Those of you that have many years breeding BRB's, I just have a few quick questions about your observations throughout the years.

My BRB that will be at 118POS on October 8th, still does not show much of a bulge, she is a little bigger then normal but not drasticly. I can still get her to take 2 mice every couple of weeks. Is this normal? if it's every now and then like this, what commen results have you had? alot of slugs with small litter? just a small litter? average litter? what's the average amount of babies you may see from this type of experience?

thanks
Zack
-----

Zack Greens Reptiles

Sorry Zack,

I find those that continue to eat all the way through "gestation" typically are not gravid at all. At 118 days she should look gravid. With your details I'd mark her as likely not gravid, still watching and hoping for babies. If she is gravid, it's likely a very small litter at best, maybe 5 - 10??
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Thanks Dave for the input, lets hope your wrong tho on not being gravid, lol more info

5-21 through 5-23 swelling (pre ovulation swell?)
then she went back down then on 5-27 she swelled again great big (ovulation?)
6-12 shed (POS?)

she has refused rats but will take mice lately she'll still take it but takes about 30 mins each mouse. She lays coiled on her side, internal body temp where small bulge is 85-86 rest of her is around 83 last time i checked

and here is a reminder pic of when i feel she ovulated

Thanks
Zacl
-----

Zack Greens Reptiles

>>5-21 through 5-23 swelling (pre ovulation swell?)
>>then she went back down then on 5-27 she swelled again great big (ovulation?)
>>6-12 shed (POS?) 5/27 - 6/12 is perfect Ov to POS timing. 06/12 POS gives me a due date of 10/07?? Just realized I misread your original post, thought it said she was at 118 days now.
>>
>>she has refused rats but will take mice lately she'll still take it but takes about 30 mins each mouse. She lays coiled on her side, internal body temp where small bulge is 85-86 rest of her is around 83 last time i checked that sounds good
>>
>>and here is a reminder pic of when i feel she ovulated
>>
>>
>>Thanks
>>Zacl
>>-----
>>
>> Zack Greens Reptiles
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Thanks again Dave, you had me starting to panic, lol
-----

Zack Greens Reptiles

IMO she could be gravid with a small litter. Many good signs and timing seems good. All you can do is watch and wait.

Screeeeeeeccccchhhhhhhhh - drags out soap box...

It's hard to give a good opinion with missing info. From your first post IMO it did not look good. With the additional details in your reply it looks much better. Partially my fault missing your due date and assuming the 118 days you mentioned as where she was today. But had I had the additional info I would have likely caught my mistake.

Kachunnnnnkkkkkkkkkk - puts soap box back away...

I've done a lot of work over the last few years recording and comparing mating details on many pairings. From all that I believe I have a "typical" mating sequence with timing....

October (actual date depends on if/when indian summer is over) - begin cooling cycle, lower temps slowly over the next few weeks to be at low temp (low - mid 70's) by November.

2 months at cooler temp.

Introduce males ad raise temps over a few week period back up to 82.

First mating can be anywhere from next day to a few months later!

After first sign of mating (tail wrap) mating will occur on and off for about 2 - 4 weeks. I've seen good litters come from only one mating and I've also seen the mating process go on for 5 plus weeks but typical is about 3 weeks on and off.

Ovulation - not commonly seen / noticed but is fairly obvious.

Mating - POS Typically 3 - 5 weeks

Ovulation - POS Only have three few data points (don't typically catch the ovulation) but they were 16, 16 and 15 days, very consistent.

Due date - I set it at POS plus 117 days. Plus or minus one week is typically the actual delivery date.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

>>Great summary, Dave. I assume by temps you are referring to the warm/heated end?
>>-----
>>Cliff Earle
>>3.2.0 BRB 2007s
>>1.4.0 BRB 2008s
>>4.7.0 BRB 2009s
>>Living Gems Reptiles
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Zack,
...Dave gave good info about the timing. Looking at it from another direction. How many times has she eaten for you while she has been apparently gravid? Only a couple of times have any of mine ever eaten more than three times while gravid. Most will only eat once or twice. Some not at all the entire time they are gravid. OTOH, with BRBs mice will almost always get a better feeding response than rats. Perhaps some of mine that passed up rats while gravid would have taken mice instead.
Jeff

And, if she has been eating, and you even think she could be gravid, it's time to stop even offering food to her. A bit of a fast will not hurt her, trying to pass a stool could hurt a litter.

Once you are sure she's not gravid, then and only then start feeding her again.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Thanks for more info guys, she normaly eats med rats, very laid back lazy eatter and will only eat if left alone in the dark. 2 weeks after pos I offered her a small rat overnight and she showed no interest, waitted a few more weeks and offered mice and she seemed excited to have a mouse and then another, waitted about a month and offered again she ate them but not nearly as quick and excited as the prior feeding, then last week I offered again and she was slower then ever to even check it out but ate them both. I haven't planned to offer her again untill i see some little one squerming around if luck comes my way. Next year if she gains her weight back ok and in time I'm going to throw this male in with her

Thanks again
-----

Zack Greens Reptiles

Hey guys, sorry for the long post.....

But to make an additional comment(s) on the subject of feeding gravid females...and just as a disclaimer, to date I have only ever had 1 gravid female BRB but this was what happened in my experience.

I fed my female normally on about a 12-14 day schedule of lrg adult rats from the time I strated cooling in Mid October through the time I introduced my male in December and I kept up with this until around March.

In March, I recorded what I initially thought was her POS (althought I eventually realized this wasn't her atual POS). At this point I cut her off on the food for the next 1.5 months and when she shed again on 5/4/2010 (her legit POS date) I began offering her food about once every month.

I scaled back the size of my food offerings in case there were any developing young and thus either offered her extra large mice or day old chicks both f/t from there on. One thing that I noticed and took as a good sign was that she would not constrict or even hardly lunge at these food items but when I sat them close to her for a few moments she would just slowly open her mouth and begin swallowing the food item.

I continued this routine and she ate one meal towards the end of May, June, and July. At this point she looked ready to burst and had spent nearly all of the past 3 months of her time on the heat 24-7. I temp gunned her nearly every time I checked on her and she always ranged in temp from 81-85 in her swollen section (most often right at 82.5 degrees).

At this point I held off on offering her any more food until the babies were born and that happened on 8/23/10 which put her at 111 days POS and right in line with Daves 117+/- a week.

Oh yeah, and she delivered 25 healthy babies and is doing great with a good body size and weight currently not even 1 month out from delivering her litter.

I guess really all I'm saying is that I feel like offering her food during her pregnancy helped to keep her in good shape and it didn't seem to cause any ill effects for the developing young. I think that producing such a large litter while being fed on this schedule is decent evidence that will make me worry less about this feeding protocol in the future. I hope any of this made sense to atleast someone, ha sorry for such a long rambling.
-----
Ike Lightner

2.3 BRB (Dugo, Sultan, Roxy, Brazita, & Lucille)