Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a friend of a friend who purchased a snake from a breeder. Well known actually, and this breeder sold this friend a Neonate that was less than a week old. Had not fed nor shed yet. Now friend has had baby ball for more than a month without eating nor shedding. Should he be concerned? Should action be taken? Should he get a properly well started ball?

I am not going to name any names out of integrity. I am just looking for opinions. What should be done?
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"In order to succeed, your desire for success should be greater than your fear of failure."
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Did he know he was buying an unstarted baby, or was it advertised as having fed and shed?
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www.jasonrbartolettreptiles.webs.com

you said that it had not she dor fed yet for the first time and then that he had had it for a month?? Does not jibe. Baby ball pythons shed after they are a week old or so.
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Evan Stahl Reptiles
www.evanstahl.com

My friend is new to the ball python world and caring. He did not know what he was purchasing. I guess he thought 3 days was old enough to take home.

Evan: Yes, about 3 weeks he has had the snake. No Eat, No Shed!
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"In order to succeed, your desire for success should be greater than your fear of failure."
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We had one of our babies that hatched June 30th and just shed about a week ago. We waited almost a month without him shedding and finally caved in and fed him. Eats like a pig. Just took forever to shed. I have heard of other people having the same problem. So no they don't always shed within the first week or so especially if they didn't absorb all of their yolk and they're not eating. And no Evan I'm not trying to pick a fight with you lol so play nice. I'm just saying that it does happen.
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BB
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2.3 Normal Adult Ball Pythons
5.5 Normal Baby Ball Pythons
1.1 Pastel Ball Pythons
1.1 Het Orange Ghost Ball Pythons
1.0 Albino Ball Python
0.2 Het Albino Ball Pythons
1.0 Poss Het Pied Ball Python
0.2 Het Pied Ball Pythons
1.0 Cinnamon Ball Python
1.0 Butter Ball Python
1.1 Bearded Dragons

Should he return the snake for a well started one? Should he continue to offer food and not give up?
This is his first snake, so he is already kind of attached to it. The main question at hand is, Did this breeder take proper action in the sale of a ball python? If not, what action can be taken?
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"In order to succeed, your desire for success should be greater than your fear of failure."
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The question is....was he aware he was buying a snake strait from the egg. I would never sell an animal that was not started to someone who never owned a snake before. If he was aware and accepted the animal knowingly. He can give it a few days untouched. Provide a nice tight hide box for him to settle in. Then offer it a small fuzzie mouse. I would reccomend placing it in his enclosure just as it is getting dark outside and leaving it alone untill morning. I have had hatchlings refuse food for almost 2 months and not shed either. All the other hatchlings in the clutch had there second shed. It eventualy shed and began eating very well. This has only happened twice for me in over 50 or so clutches.
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Dino White

www.whitediamondreptiles.com

dino@whitediamondreptiles.com

Dean, thank you for your input. He did not purchase this snake knowingly since he is new and did not know he was buying a newly born snake. He though he was purchasing a regular baby snake.
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"In order to succeed, your desire for success should be greater than your fear of failure."
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To Me its sounding like he got a so called deal on a New Born Baby, and was told this. If that Baby hasn't shed yet it needs to be soaked in some 88 degree water for awhile. And then try feeding it a Sm Mouse or something deffernt. Ive had babys and have had other Breeders babys that they have had a hard time with eating. They always turn around and take off..

I would check temps, sounds like it maybe on the cool side being a new Hobbiest. Check it for Mites also. There just sounds like theres more to this story. Bottom line is Getting that Pup to Eat and shed..

Van
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Forever Trust in what we are,and nothing else Matters

We currently are working on the feeding aspect and shed. Aside from its issues, do you think this Breeder should have done this? Shouldn't the breeder wait a period of time before a neonate is sold?
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"In order to succeed, your desire for success should be greater than your fear of failure."
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I've received all my snakes after receiving their 5-6th meal and have already had their 2nd to 3rd sheds. Never experienced a situation like this.
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"In order to succeed, your desire for success should be greater than your fear of failure."
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Most breeders wait until the snake has fed a set number of times, usually 3, sometimes 5-6. Other breeders sell the snake right out of the egg. There is no set rule or standard, and if the breeder advertises it right out of the egg, then it's on the buyer to pass up that deal if they are not confident with it. And I don't know how often the breeders you have purchased from feed their babies, or how accurate their records are, but the babies I hatch often have 6-8 meals in them and still haven't had their second shed.
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www.jasonrbartolettreptiles.webs.com

Personally, I don't think snakes should be sold until they've had their first shed and a few meals. However, I've seen a lot of breeders do this. I think it is important that they are making people aware that they are buying a snake that hasn't shed or eaten yet. I bought a spider that had shed and only ate one meal. It's always been a problem eater since I've had it, but I knew that from the beginning. It was basically sold to me as a problem eater. I think part of it may be your friends problem for not inquiring about it. I know that your friend is new to the game, but it is important to do all your research ahead of time. I would contact the breeder and ask for advice about what to do with it. Maybe they will trade it for a started baby.
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Teresa
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3.0 Dogs (2.0 Chihuahuas, 1.0 Toy Poodle)
1.5 Cats
1.0 Cockatiel
1.0 Indonesian Blue tongue skink

Ball Pythons
0.1 100% Het Albino (Watson)
1.0 Pastel (Sweets)
0.1 Spider (Daisy)
1.0 Albino

If so, did he get it for some kind of GOOD DEAL?

As in, buy it like this and it is this price..... wait for me to get it feeding well and I will ship it to you for a higher price?

Secondly, does your friend know anything about snakes? If he bought the snake from a breeder at a show you can not exactly expect the breeder to make sure the customer knows enough about the care of a ball python.

A few meals is often enough for a snake to go if the customer wants it....

Don't quite understand the point of this.... Are you trying to say the Seller was the bad guy for not making sure that every customer knows how to keep a ball python. Quite likely he expects the customer to have some kind of understanding of snakes....

SANTA

>>We currently are working on the feeding aspect and shed. Aside from its issues, do you think this Breeder should have done this? Shouldn't the breeder wait a period of time before a neonate is sold?
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>>"In order to succeed, your desire for success should be greater than your fear of failure."
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>>0.1 Normal
>>1.0 Albino
>>0.2 100% Het Albino
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>>1.0 Amir Line YB
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

To answer your question directly, it IS bad business IMO to not inform purchasers that the snakes are out of the egg and have never fed yet. The breeder should of at least had a sign or label on the snakes advertising them as out of egg. I am not sure if your friend got his snake at a reduced price or not. Maybe the breeder had them at a reduced price and felt the buyers should inquire about the differences in price.I know its a buyer beware market with reptiles. Still, I think the breeder was obligated to advertise or advise prospective buyers of the hatchlings status in this case. However, your friend should have done a bit of homework and asked more questions as well, like "is this snake feeding and on what?" No offense, but this is a situation where an experienced and knowledgeable friend should have informed him on what to look for when buying at a show.

If your friend truly got duped and was not informed in any way, then I think he is entitled to return the snake for a refund, or for an established animal.

It doesn't sound like the snake was misrepresented - so I wouldn't call this bad business. Has your friend tried to contact the seller and get some help? If so perhaps a trade for one that is started? Ultimately it's up to the buyer to know what they are buying and how to care for it - most breeders will help out and be flexible where needed a month after the fact tho is a tough one. Maybe your friend can come and post their care info here and get some useful suggestions and tips. I hope all works out for your friend and the snake.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

nihil facimus sed id bene facimus

I've mentioned this forum to him. He said he would try and register some time soon.

I appreciate all the helpful information. Thank you.
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"In order to succeed, your desire for success should be greater than your fear of failure."
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0.1 Normal
1.0 Albino
0.2 100% Het Albino
0.1 Pastels
1.0 Amir Line YB

Depends. Did your friend of a friend KNOW the snake had not shed or eaten? If so...then nothing to be done. If not, they might want to talk to said breeder.
If they bought the snake knowing what was up, they really have no right to complain.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

I agree if he knew the snake was 3 days old and did research he would be aware that most likely the snake hasn't had its 1st shed and hasn't ate yet.. Your friend being a 1st time snake keeper and the lack of previous research leads me to believe there is a decent chance his husbandry is a part of the issue.. So seems like if anyone is at fault its the buyer.. Now if you can have your friend or find out for your self more information about how the snake is kept im sure someone here would be more then happy to help your friend with any issues.. Common suggestions will be 1st check the temps.. Make sure snake has hides and if its in a tank make sure its not a baby snake in a huge tank and if it is make sure it has several hides.... Your friend also doesn't need to be handling the snake at all until after it is a established feeder.. Handling and a lot of activity around the tank could stress the snake out even further. A live hopper mouse at night time in the dark is the best food suggestion for a baby ball python.. If the snakes starts getting too skinny id suggest taking it to a vet... Goodluck and I hope the snake is ok..

Also...I've never had problems getting baby ball pythons to start eating when using the smallest adult mouse I could find.
(Though all of my babies have been pretty big)
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

it is unethical to sell a snake before it's had 3 meals or so - but in this buss,one needs to make sure as yr ethics / standards may not be the same as someone else - so if you are buying a newborn, you have to ask those questions, when was it born, how many meals has it had, live or thawed, etc.

i sell and give away plenty of newborns, but never before they take 3 thawed meals. that way if it takes the newborn awhile to get over the shock of shipping and a new enclosure, it has some body mass to deal with the delay in getting back on track.

I appreciate everyone's input. I do also agree it is "unethical" for one to sell a baby without properly making sure it will survive.

Thank you to everyone with their input, the baby took its first meal. Waiting on the shed! Thanks again!
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"In order to succeed, your desire for success should be greater than your fear of failure."
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0.1 Normal
1.0 Albino
0.2 100% Het Albino
0.1 Pastels
1.0 Amir Line YB