Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello, just have a question you may be able to clear up.

I was just on the Florida National History Museum website looking at snakes (c'mon, someone else must do this ...) and I saw that the short-tailed snake had recently been placed in the genus Lampropeltis. Is it now the short-tailed kingsnake? What I've read says they eat other snakes, but other than that morphology looks pretty distinct. Does anyone here know anything about this slender, secretive creature?

crocacutus

I have never seen a live specimen personally, but I was aware of this new proposal of change some months ago as well.

Aside from their slender build, they do seem to have a fairly strong color/pattern resemblance to mole kings of the calligaster complex.

~Doug
Link

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I just got the new edition of Advanced Vivarium's Milksnakes book. As far as I can tell, yes Short-tails are now Kingsnakes in the official Taxonomy.

Matthew

maybe they always were kingsnakes.....no one knew......go figure and scarlet kingsnakes ain't........YO!!!!

Yeah Bob, I guess it all depends on how things are looked at, and by who!..HAHAA!!

One of life's greatest mysteries!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

..But Scarlet kings ARE. Maybe Scarlet snakes & Longnoses are going to be joining next? LOL

Matthew

Ah!, okay, I wasn't sure if it actually took place yet or not. Thanks for the latest update!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

No problem, but I find Short-tails a little too divergent to be in Lampropeltis, but I cannot make the classifications.
Too bad, if I could Pluto would still be a regular Planet! LOL

Matthew

I read a book from the late 70s that mentions short-tailed snakes. In there, the author said that they sure looked and acted like small kingsnakes.. So it took 30-something yrs and now they are.
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Mark

The Short-tailed Snake has long been suspected as closely allied with Lampropeltis. Several lines of evidence suggest, rather strongly, that our old Stilosoma is the sister species of L. getula, making it L. extenuata.

Please note that popular pet care titles are NOT a good place to look for answers to questions regarding active research or scientific information. They're great for what they're intended (captive care), but not always so great for accurate representation of research. If you're interested in some of the published papers on the phylogenetics of the tribe Lampropeltini, I'd be more than happy to send you what I have.

-Cole

I found the info in a species file on the short-tailed snake at the Florida Museum of Natural History's herpetology website.

crocacutus

I spent many vacations looking for one of these decades ago. Never found the first one. Now that they are apparently recognized as Kingsnakes, wonder when the first "wild caught" albino will show up. Gotta happen.

Not going to happen. Name change or not, this snake is heavily protected from collection by the state of Florida. Assuming you'd even find a normal one.

Matt

Well, I hope you're right. Never underestimate these "human beans" though, especially when there's $'s to be made. Fist one probably won't be a "wild caught" though. It'll suddenly appear from little known "Long Term Captive" specimens.

First.....not "fist". Where's the edit button? NP

I don't think these snakes will ever do anything in the pet trade, legalities aside. They don't even get as big as scarlet kings, and are super skinny. A full size adult would have a hard time swallowing a mouse pinkie. Their wild diet reportedly consists of only crowned snakes.