Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here's a picture of a bunny with a pancake on its head.......

Remember that one Rainer?
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Oooooo -- is it a purebred bunny? Those pancakes look like they could be hybrid (protein and carbohydrates).

Tom,
There could be a little ruthie in those pancakes for sure, but most wouldn't care and would defend it as a purebred pancake to the end. Lord knows if you point it out you'll become a villian!

All pancakes are hybrids for sure!

* 1 1/2 cups all-purpose flour
* 3 1/2 teaspoons baking powder
* 1 teaspoon salt
* 1 tablespoon white sugar
* 1 1/4 cups milk
* 1 egg
* 3 tablespoons butter, melted

Distantly related to tortillas:
* 3 cups all-purpose flour
* 2 teaspoons baking powder
* 2 teaspoons salt
* 3/4 cup shortening
* 3/4 cup hot water

Some purists would not allow such hybrids on their plates, much less on their bunnies, but I for one am more tolerant.
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

Put some butter and syrup on that bunny, I'm taking it to Kevin's death camp.

Joe, I will take the bunny, peanut butter and all. However, you must take the pancake. Only you have the husbandry expertise to get it to feed and I am sure everyone else will fail in that effort LOL!!!

Kevin,
My husbandry is not perfect by any means, I have to make the same compromises as many of you, but I do care very much about the LIVING BEINGS in my care. It is RARE that I have a death, but they do occur. I don't always send them out to necropsy, so I can't SPECULATE about whether they had HEART DEFECTS or they were DECOYS (LMAO).

Down below you gave me a little sarcasm, just like Jorge. Am I to presume you gys can dish it out but you can't take it?

>>Joe, I will take the bunny, peanut butter and all. However, you must take the pancake. Only you have the husbandry expertise to get it to feed and I am sure everyone else will fail in that effort LOL!!!

Joe, I can dish and take as well as anyone else on the forum LOL. PLEASE do not take any of my comments as a direct attack on your care and capabilities as a herper!!!! I never intend to disrespect or take a poke at ANYONE on the forums and I generally temper my responses to be diplomatic and provide my opinions and experiences with as little or no sarcasm as possible. All I did was make a reply to John stating that I disagreed with husbandry being able to cure EVERY woe that plaques us in this hobby, because such woes befall animals even in nature where the "husbandry" conditions are considered perfect. Just like modern medicine does not cure every disease or illness we suffer in society today, the reality is our husbandry efforts cannot save or successfully hatch every egg we get, or successfully raise every neonate that is hatched even if a miniscule percentage. That somehow appeared to turn me into a neonate deathcamp Nazi in your eyes LOL!!!

Come on guys....
It's just a bunny with a pancake on its head....LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Kevin,
Truce accepted! The death camp was total sarcasm in response to some of your sarcasm, just so you know.

I'm not trying to one up you, promise, but I really think the most important point in our back and forth (lets use kinks for example) is that we must find the cause of the kinks before we can attribute it to bad husbandry (which includes diet, all aspects of incubation, temps, ect ect) or random defect / mutation.

I know you said that we may never know, and I accept that possibility, but I am going to hold on to the hope that it is related to our husbandry and we will find a way to avoid kinks (in our truce you should also accept that possibilty).

Joe I DO ACCEPT THAT POSSIBILITY!!! Also, my pokes were sarcasm as well to make or argue points, not be disrespectful. Please believe me when I say that when I have bad clutches, unexepected deaths, etc., I do not run around saying "Act of God, act of God!!!!" LOL!! No, I look at the conditions, setups, review what I may have done or didnt do. Its that crazy stuff like having 100 percent hatch rate with good healthy babies a couple of years in the row. Man, you think you got it down and are kinda proud of yourself. Then you have that year where large percentages of clutches are infertile, go bad, you hatch some malformed babies, and you just scratch your head and go WTF LOL!!!

Its all good. I do agree with your insights on looking at husbandry as the most likely culprit to many of the woes that befall us. But I will still hold onto my belief that some rarities will never be explained or be able to be blamed on husbandry.

>>>>I do not run around saying "Act of God, act of God!!!!" LOL!!

LOL!

>>But I will still hold onto my belief that some rarities will never be explained or be able to be blamed on husbandry.

Well I assume this is true, or maybe just not in our lifetimes.

Peace and Pancakes!

Peace, rabbit gumbo, and pancakes LOL!!!

Hi Kevin, Hmmmmm nature is not perfect, it allows the reptiles to seek to find what they need to survive. Key to husbandry is, provide them the ability to seek what they need and when. Because they are reptiles, they do not have or require a consistant temp, etc.

Also, there is no ALL or every, The reality is, there is a very high success rate when applying husbandry to these problems, as opposed to blaming it on witchcraft.

You folks baffle me at times, you claim one thing until it does not go your way, then you abandon it like an old stinky fish. Blaming nature for success, blaming nature for failure, heck, blaming anything but yourself. When in truth, if they are IN YOUR CAGES, your to blame, end of that story.

Nature has prefected the successful genetics of these animals over millions of years and all manner of conditions. And you think your going to breed it out of them, in a minute. As I mention, Your theorizing instead of using common sense. That said, you can theorize any dang thing you want and you do.

The truth is, husbandry is responsible for 99.99% of captive failures. Are you the .01 percent that has an excuse. Hmmm or is it the other guy, or others with the same problem. all with differnet animals, yet blaming a totally different type alltogether. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm You play the lotto? Why didn't you win? Cheers

not in the message you preach. You actually make some sense ....once. Just kidding! but what lights me on fire and send me running for the oozie I have stashed under my bed is your condesending attitude and chest beating and self promotion. You may very well be a pioneer of the ancient days but all I know of you is what I read here on this forum and it doesn't come across very admirable! If you learn to talk to people instead of down to people, maybe fewer people would take arms against your every post. One thing that stinks in my nose worse than an burrito fart, is arrogance. Just being honest.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

No offense, its not my additude thats the problem. Its you wanting to be agreed with.

You attribute an additude fo me because, I did not pat you on the back and say, oh your probably right.

Instead of having a taco fart in your nose, why not talk about the animals.

My guess is, when your wrong, it is like a taco fart in your nose. That I am sorry for. I wonder what its like for the baby snakes that are not supported enough to achieve normal feeding behavior, talk about a taco fart.

No it's your way of talking down to people! You just proved it again. I have admited to being wrong here several times. In fact I think, I may be one of the few who actually admit when they wrong. But that can't happen to you cause, your always right! When someone has to try to convince everyone else of how great they are, there's something else going on, but that's not for me to figure out.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

>>taco fart.

ROFLMAO!!!!

it was funny when I said it, ha ha. Hail to the king! Well, I actually said, burrito fart. FR could say let's all juggle eggs and some people here would say YES, that's a great ideah, lol.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

LIKE IT IS FR!!!
,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

Frank, the point I am trying to make, and the one everyone appears to miss, is the fact there are WITHOUT a doubt mishaps and problems that will occur in captivitiy, just as in nature. I dont give two flips of how REMOTE that may be, the fact that it can possibly occur at all is good enough for me to have made my original statement. The point is husbandry is not and cannot be EVERYTHING related to mishaps or problems in captive conditions. I do not think its theoretically possible to say that with 100 percent surity. Just cant be. I dont care if you are a newbie or very seasoned person like yourself. There will ALWAYS be something that will or may occur in your collections, JUST LIKE IN NATURE, that cannot be attributed to husbandry. That fact alone negates the statement that ALL captive problems are ALL attributed to husbandry IMO. I do not think that is naturally/theoretically/otherwise possible. If that was the case, then there would be no hope for any of us who have had animals die on us to keep these animals any longer and we should just recognize we cannot be 100 percent successful with our husbandry and quit now. I do feel we are betting on these problems to be husbandry corrected for the most part. But deep down inside, most of us realize the "Sh&t happens" factor just comes into play regardless of what we do. Thankfully it is not enough for us to give up hope we can be successful and provide good lives for the animals we chose to keep captive.

did you and Jorge ride the same bus to school?

my guess at least in jorge's case is it was the "short" bus LMAO!!!
,,,,,,,,thomas
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

No, but we are both from New Orleans. "Where ya at bra?!", "Hows ya mom and dem?", "Go Saints!" and all that other stuff LOL!!

who dat!?

We both grew up in New Orleans, but never knew each other untill meeting here on this forum, ha ha. Maybe we are a product of our enviroment? I don't know where you live but I'm getting a California vibe?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Tex-ASS! lol

Not another Texan, lol. Texans on this forum are like Canadians in Florida.....their all over the place! Actually when Texas suceeds ah, breaks away, from the US I may have to move there! Great people in Texas!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

We can't really succeed from the union, that was a ploy by our Governor to get the radical vote. Texas has its share of problems, for sure.....

I completely agree with you.

While husbandry can safely be associated with a lot, if not, most issues, with our snakes in captivity, to say that it has EVERYTHING to do with it would be inaccurate. Snakes have physical ailments and problems, just like humans do.

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Genesis 1:1

We have a winner!!! Thanks Discern. You GET the jist of my initial statement!! Man, I thought I was all alone on a leaking raft in the middle of the ocean with my view on the initial statement that started the whole thread LOL!! I thought I was providing viable examples to support my statement, but I guess maybe I didnt. It could be I misinterpreted the original post, but I swear it sounded like it said EVERYTHING, and that I cannot buy.

Yeah that's my problem with some of these answers too Kev. It's like Husbandry is everything and we're to blame for every little thing that goes wrong! Talk about a heavy guilt trip. I feel confident that I give my snakes very good care. I don't give them each a condominium to live in but they are healthy and taken care of. I mean we could go in the other direction and go overboard too like people who take their dogs to the spa and crap.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Is that a Portrait of a dog???????

What the ones playing pool? Excise me "Billiard", lol. Your ok Joe! Oh and I did appologize a while back for dumping on you when I confused you with FR, but you never responded
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I didn't think anything of it! You're ok too. Just keep the oozie under your bed, and Frank can back up everything he says. Believe or not, there's a whole lot of [bleep] he's done that he ain't told the forum about, true dat!

We are all OK LOL!! A little debate to keep the blood flowing never hurt anyone. Texas aint so bad either LOL!!

Dang Kevin,
so you want me to say, or you to believe that is some die in nature, its ok for folks to let some die in captivity. hmmmmmmmmm good on you.

The reality is, most die in nature, no I take that back, they all die in nature. So you can let them all die if you want.

I guess my question would be, how do you know which one is a decoy if its your husbandry thats the problem?

how do you know its the finicky feeders with non natural prey thats the problem, the pinky feeders may well be the actual decoys.

Heres the point, if you as an individual do not want to put any effort into keeping those snakes and would rather let them die, then fine, thats your choice. You do not need those that know better to tell you its ok.

If you want other beginers to agree with you anc join you in an attempt to rationalize your failures, thats fine too. But dont expect those who know better to pat you on the back and say, oh its ok. Its not ok, and its not ok for the actual snake. Cheers

Geeze man have you not read all the posts? He already stated that this is not what he is saying! You see what you want to see!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I read all the posts and you and Kevin both got it twisted several times. So what.

Did you and FR ride the same school bus? Lol!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

That lobe is acting up on you again

must be a Texan thing?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Frank, the funny thing about this whole thread is the simple fact that I disagreed with a statement that EVERYTHING (ie, All, the whole ball of wax, the entire universe, or however you view ENTIRETY)negative or bad we experience in our collections is associated with or can be solved through husbandry. I disagreed, and thats all I did LOL!! Maybe the examples I gave were not the best. However, I tried to explain myself countless times on this forum. Many finally got the context of my original reply and a few even agreed that EVERYTHING negative that herpers have ever faced in keeping reptiles is NOT husbandry related. Heck Frank, even the OP made a reply stating that he thought we all inherently KNEW he didnt mean EVERYTHING LOL!!

Kevin,
He only meant 99% of everything. I replied early one that my husbandry was far from perfect and either you or Jorge twisted that into my husbandry was so perfect I was the only one who could raise a tortilla into adulthood LMAO!!!

Most of time in that thread you were arbitrarily saying various afflictions weren't husbandry related, when in fact you had no idea what cause those afflictions!!! I told you TEN TIMES that's why I was ragging on you, and I'll tell you ten more until you get it.

LOOK - OUR HUSBANDRY SUCKS - IT SUCKS EGGS..... you want the laundry list of problems that can be associated with poor husbandry??

where you going with that gun in your hand?(shameless hendrix fan)
i'll start that list...
1.feeding response
2.growth rate
3.spaztastic attitude
4.shedding problems
5.sudden death
plus many more please add as you feel.
now on to adults...
1.egg binding
2.dehydration
3.prolonged starvation this is for the once a week or even 2weeks who choose to dole out the food on a schedule, i feed my snakes when they are hungry for many snakes in my collection thats DAILY.

just a few off the top of my head please ad to it as you see fit.
,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

I can take anything, ha ha!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I gotta ask.

How in the great blue hell do you all look a picture with a bunny wearing a pancake hat and get into a fight?

Really kids?
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
Follow Kingsnake on Twitter!

well the bunny may be true but its PLAIN to see the pancake is an OBVIOUS hybrid my guess would be maybe crepe or waffle but as pointed out tortilla certainly could be in the mix who's to say it post like this ya know...

,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

>>well the bunny may be true but its PLAIN to see the pancake is an OBVIOUS hybrid my guess would be maybe crepe or waffle but as pointed out tortilla certainly could be in the mix who's to say it post like this ya know...
>>

LOL....Thomas but crepes, waffles, tortillas, pancakes and waffles are ALL the same, right?......Just screwin with ya......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

WHOLE GRAIN OR BLEACHED? BIG DIFFERANCE THERE AMIGOalso getting them to adulthood??? fundementally yes they are same realize TRUE pancake will have lateral banding good for soaking up syrup whereas crepe is usally smooth speckling for jams and such and waffles in there I GUARENTEE IT! I can just SEE it! and those type of hybrids IMHO go for it with syrup, jam, and even dont tell rainer but, peanut butter!
DOH!
,,,,,,,thomas
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

if it's not gluten free we might get Taco farts - roflmao - I might have to eternalize FR's latest & greatest!

in the article its reffered to as vacuum fluctuations! LMAO

http://www.world-science.net/othernews/100912_random

,,,,,,,,thomas
Link

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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

But farts are ALWAYS funny...
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
Follow Kingsnake on Twitter!

He was repeating my statement, but it's not funny coming from me, lol. What a joke!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

timing is everything, yours were kind of flat..... plus I don't find you funny, looks aside

Besides I know Frank, and he is funny, you don't have any idea on this forum, that's why you guys get wrapped around the axle reading his posts lol

If you say so.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Partly pride, partly fun on my part. Ok, mostly pride. Plus linking an unrelated post to another. If you posted something to the effect of "During the day, in general, the sky is blue." I would have no reason to disagree. However, if you post something along the lines of "The sky is ALWAYS blue!", well then I have to disagree. When it rains its grey. At night its black, and in the evenings when the sun is going down it can be pink, red, purple LOL!!

There is nothing wrong with a little debate. If not for us Cindy would have to moderate something else.....

Yeah, like the Asian Ratsnake Forum "Yawn"!!!

Yeah,like the Asian Ratsnake forum "YAWN" LOL!!

>>Yeah,like the Asian Ratsnake forum "YAWN" LOL!!

OHHHH Or I could post on the python forums..

Ya all know I do not intentionally keep colubrids of any sort right? But I probably know more about them than my pythons these days...

BTW Did ya see we have a blog set up where you can rant to your hearts contents and there is MINIMAL MODERATION!!! Just saying.
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
Follow Kingsnake on Twitter!

I am totally convinced that ONE of you would disagree for the sheer joy of it...

Note to self, pad the front of the desk so that the thud following seriously will no longer harm me.
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
Follow Kingsnake on Twitter!

But your right there is one here who will disagree with just about everyone, lol!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

>>I am totally convinced that ONE of you would disagree for the sheer joy of it...
>>
>>Note to self, pad the front of the desk so that the thud following seriously will no longer harm me.
>>-----
>>Cindy Steinle
>>PHFaust
>>Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
>> Follow Kingsnake on Twitter!

....'til winter really sets in......
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

>>....'til winter really sets in......
>>:Mark
>>-----
>>Surrender Dorothy!
>>
>>crimsonking.piczo.com/
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

too funny! The natives will get restless?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

>>....'til winter really sets in......
>>:Mark

Ya know the one beer John bought me in daytona did NOT buy that MUCH tolerance... SIGH Pretty soon I think I may have to start calling your wives if you have them.
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
Follow Kingsnake on Twitter!

>>>>....'til winter really sets in......
>>>>:Mark
>>
>>Ya know the one beer John bought me in daytona did NOT buy that MUCH tolerance... SIGH Pretty soon I think I may have to start calling your wives if you have them.

SHHHHHHH.....that wasn't my wife in Daytona with me......LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

>>SHHHHHHH.....that wasn't my wife in Daytona with me......LOL
>>-----

DUDE you are one of the few forum members I actually have contact info on my own with. Ummm yeah wanna rethink that?
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
Follow Kingsnake on Twitter!

It was a test and they all failed Cindy.....LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Well John, I resent that statement and if you want to start something buddy, let me tell you...... LOL JUST KIDDING!!!!