Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click here to visit Classifieds
Click for ZooMed
Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You

Need Boa ID

McKenzieS Sep 21, 2010 08:08 PM

I just got this little girl this past weekend, and I'm pretty well stumped as to what "morph" she is. She is clearly not your average run-of-the-mill Colombian, and even her breeder has no idea how she turned out like this.

First, some background on her. She was born 07/20/09, and she is tiny for her age. I saw both parents, and they were nothing extraordinary at all. Her mother is a typical, rather dark Colombian Boa, supposedly het for albino(not proven as such, though). Her father appears to be a Honduran "Fire Belly", slender-built, about 5 feet long, 12 years old, typical dark CA pattern on top and bright orange-peach coloration underneath, a probable import. There is nothing odd or unusual about either. The litter consisted of only four babies and 19 slugs, and all four babies appeared to be preemies, with the three initial survivors retaining their yolks several days after birth. There was one stillborn baby that had not fully developed. Of the three survivors, there was this girl, and one a female that looked like a very typical Hypo, and a male that was very Anery-looking at first, but which turned nearly black after his first shed. However, he had noticeable birth defects, including two spinal kinks, and he only lived for six weeks. The two females appeared healthy, just small.

This little girl has no noticeable red on her at all. Her pattern, and most especially her tail, is what I'd describe as a warm latte' color, or light chocolate. It reminds me of the color of a Weimaraner dog or an Isabella Doberman. There is absolutely no black on this snake; even the bar behind her eye is still dark chocolate brown, not black. As you can see, her pattern is somewhat aberrant, though nowhere near as aberrant as her that of her Hypo-ish sister, who'd already been sold(breeder had pics on her computer), which was really "Jungle-ish", with about a 3/4 stripe.
Image

Replies (14)

McKenzieS Sep 21, 2010 08:12 PM

Here is another pic, of her belly:
Image

McKenzieS Sep 21, 2010 08:14 PM

Here is another, in my hand(I'm 5' 2", so I have small hands) for scale:

Image

McKenzieS Sep 21, 2010 08:16 PM

A close-up of her tail:

Any clue as to what genetics could have produced this, or is it a fluke due to her having been born prematurely?
Image

LarM Sep 21, 2010 09:11 PM

I can't help but think it reminds me of some type of C.A. t -Pos type Boa.

Which brings me to those Boas labeled "Desert T-Pos Boas"
it looks kind of like those Boas, to me .

. . . Lar M
-----
Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

Caddell Sep 21, 2010 09:45 PM

Yep, defo looks like a Nic T due to not having any black pigment.

VolcomHerp Sep 21, 2010 10:01 PM

Wouldn't have the foggiest clue about what morph it could be, BUT I do know that is one cool looking little thing you got there! I really love the looks of the face and also that faded wash look it has all over. Very carmel looking by that look of the pic =D What a beauty. Thanks for sharing the pic and going into the vivid detail for the background on that little one.
Cheers
Jake D. Britton

McKenzieS Sep 22, 2010 05:24 AM

It's going to be interesting to breed this little girl later on down the line, to see what crops up. Her father was definitely a Central American, since he was very dark and "muddy" and only five feet or so at 12 years of age. Her mother, though, was a really large, massive Colombian-again, not the prettiest snake in terms of color. I'm really curious as to where the Hypo in my snake's sister came from, though, with Hypo being a co-dominant trait. I'd have expected it to be present in at least one of the parents.

Jonathan_Brady Sep 22, 2010 02:22 PM

You said: "Her father appears to be a Honduran "Fire Belly"" (emphasis added)

But then you also said: "Her father was definitely a Central American"

I don't feel like it's the right thing to do to CONCLUSIVELY state where one of the parents came from since the origin is in fact, unknown. Assumptions can be a dangerous thing. It's fine if you want to make statements about origins if you intend to keep the animal for life, and never breed it (because it's just your animal and affects no one else), but you stated: "It's going to be interesting to breed this little girl later on down the line, to see what crops up." So clearly you have an intent to breed her and you're already creating the origins of that animal.

As for the father being a "Honduran Fire Belly", that would be an unfortunate scenario. I say that because obviously the lineage has been lost (as there is no KNOWN origin for that animal) and a WC Honduran from the Fire Belly line would be a rare animal indeed.

jb

-----
What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

McKenzieS Sep 22, 2010 04:28 PM

Get your little panties out of your crack, Johnny.
Yes, I said APPEARS to be a Honduran, and I'm not exactly a novice at Boas, kiddo. I'm probably old enough to be your mama and I've had Boas since before your parents ever met, so don't pull that patronizing act on me! It makes you sound like a 14-year-old know-it-all brat. It is YOU who is making assumptions and inventing stories here, not me.

Yes, I DO plan to breed this snake. NO, I'm not making up or claiming she is this or that, but I DO know enough about Boas to know a CA when I see one. I'm not an idiot, and I really, really don't like you implying that I am, or that I'm some wet-behind-the-ears little kid who has just gotten her first Boa and doesn't know s*** about them at all. The mother of my snake is also a Colombian which is a possible het for Kahl albino, and she DOES come from a known background. I'm pretty certain that if I put up photos of the father on her, with very, very few exceptions, the knowledgeable Boa folk would agree he's a CA.

I don't know if my little snake is T-positive albino or not. Her eyes don't match the ones I've actually seen and held, in person, although her coloration does. I guess if I breed her to a known T-positive, and get all T-positive babies, I'll know for certain. It would just seem rather odd to have this gene carried by a known Colombian Boa, since it's more readily associated with CA Boas, but wait...you're the great expert, so I'm probably wasting my time telling YOU that, aren't I? Until then, I'll treat her as a "POSSIBLE" until she's proven, just as I would a highly aberrantly-patterned Boa that is a POSSIBLE Jungle until it can be proven to produce those pattern abnormalities, ruling out a temperature-related fluke.

S.A. McKenzie,
aka "pitbulllady"

Jonathan_Brady Sep 22, 2010 05:37 PM

You're funny

I was actually going to let that be my post until I got to this part where you said:

"just as I would a highly aberrantly-patterned Boa that is a POSSIBLE Jungle until it can be proven to produce those pattern abnormalities, ruling out a temperature-related fluke."

Then I realized that you MAY in fact not have a clue what you're talking about. In fact, in your efforts to validate your knowledge, you exposed your lack of it. Here, I'll help...

"JUNGLE" refers to a specific line of boa, not aberrancies. ie, not all aberrant boas are jungles (they must descend from Lars Brandle's original stock) AND not all jungles are aberrant - so there's TWO examples of you not having a clue what you're talking about. Perhaps your knowledge is "wet behind the ears", even though your boa keeping years are not. Maybe you should listen to know-it-all's more often. I do not consider myself one, however. So feel free to ignore me and remain blissfully ignorant.

As for the rest of your post, I QUOTED you ASSUMING and INVENTING lineage information, so why deny it?

Why am I the bad guy for pointing out inaccuracies? Are people in such need of "PC" behavior and conversation that they can no longer take THE TRUTH? You stated many times that you were old, but you clearly lack the ability to participate in a constructive conversation that someone your age should have.

jb
-----
What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

KaiYudSai Sep 28, 2010 02:07 PM

I couldnt have said it better JB... LOL.... It really amazes me ... when people post up these Boa ID help threads... and then get all bent out of shape when they dont get the info they hoped for.....

I find it amusing when people try to assign a locality based on their "Extensive field knowledge" LOL.... Nothing like an armchair taxonomist....LOL

We have a huge mess in boas these days because of this very thing... A locality description should ONLY be used when there is actual data associated with the boa.....
-----
Marc Duhon
Lafayette, Louisiana
SURINAMBOAS.COM
kaiyudsai@SURINAMBOAS.COM

boacraze Sep 22, 2010 06:48 AM

it looks almost like some kind of ca t-positive?????????? as for the other one in the litter that appeared to be anery thats pretty common with premies my guess is there color develops more in the last week or two before there due date. outside that i dont have a clue.....lol... thanks for sharing though!!!

DeHart Sep 28, 2010 06:40 AM

It looks alot like what I imagine you might get from breeding a good "Mayan" to a Colombian. The original females of the mayan line are very nice pastel-like high red Nicaraguans with "fire-bellies" and they throw a range of appearances like what you describe no matter what you breed them to. I suspect that as your snake ages it will look more and more like a Colombian caramel albino....I think it's another form of incomplete albino/"hypomelanistic" that may have modifying genes to account for the range of pigmentation (some Mayans have reds and some do not, the black saturation varies from virtually no black to gray/"smoke" ghost to hypermel). It also appears very similar to AZ Morph's "desert hypo/T " that they believe is a new line of recessive T , and theirs also cropped out of het albino Colombians. Or, it could be something totally different

Jonathan_Brady Sep 28, 2010 06:27 PM

Thanks for the laugh!

jb
-----
What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

Site Tools