Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I think I read somewhere recently on KS that temperament was not a genetic or bred issue according to whoever.... And it got me thinking, because I have a particularly nasty boa that is just unpleasant and frankly I won't breed her because of it. In fact I am selling her. I thought I would work with her and she would outgrow it....so far she hasn't outgrown it and now she is 7ft and aims straight for my face.

ALSO, I probe snakes, particularly for a friend who breeds milksnakes and something I have noticed is that certain 'types' tend to be thrashing, nasty, biting beasts as hatchlings while others not so much and right down to another 'type' that is calm and almost placid. Now I don't handle these snakes all the time, but I know they do outgrow it for the most part. But thought it was interesting that the anerys were psychos.. down to the hypo tangerines that were almost sweet. All hatchlings, all kept the same and treated the same. The variation is the color.

Third example with a much more limited sampling is my own ratsnakes. The everglades are fine, nonaggressive. The yellows a bit more thrashing but generally fine. The 'greenish' are nasty beasts and the blacks likewise. The blacks I have had (don't have any right now) at least outgrew it except for a couple individuals. The greenishes.....filthy cheap shot so and sos that go for you like a dog in a fight. I hesitate to breed them for fear that temperament will carry to the babies.

Anyone else noticed this? Have you had nasty animals produce more tractable babies??
-----
Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

Sonya, I have had a pair of sweetheart corns produce some of the most nasty babies I have ever seen this year!!! Everyone out the egg bowed up and struck at me repeatedly. One holdback female is still pissy!! The mom I raised from a hatchling and she has ONLY struck at me during feeding times a couple of times since I had her. The dad is snow I picked up as an adult at a show and has been a total puppy since day one. Some breeders do think temperament is inheritable from the parents, same with feeding response. Some even notice differences in temperament between morphs. A friend of mine swears his hypo hondurans are meaner than his amel hondurans and contributes this to the bloodlines that produced the morphs. I guess it doesnt hurt to NOT breed mean or picky feeding animals. But to be honest, not really sure it matters. All species have general temperament demeanors most folks know about. Anyone wanting a docile snake are usually referred to boas, ball pythons, or corns. Baby milks are always spastic and bitey til they get older. Same with ratsnakes. Plus some are known to be more untrustworthy regardless like texas rats, or yellow rats. You never know when the cork is going to pop on those!! Still, I have run across terror boas, and even hit and run boas that were fine one minute, then BAM!!! Same with corns and cal kings.

I think as collections grow, we also loose the ability to handle our snakes as much as we did when we only had one as a pet. When we got that first snake, it usually was from someone who gave it to us or we bought it from and they calmly reached in, picked it up and gave it to us. So, we knew the snakes were "tame" and reacted accordingly. It set our minds up to be calm and sure with it and trust it. Plus, I think we read our snakes better and knew when NOT to handle them. My first snake was a speckled king that was real cool. I held him pretty much every day except after feeding, in shed, etc. Still, there were days when he hissed or arched his body away and I knew to leave him alone and try again another day. Now, I have to handle snakes on MY schedule, not theirs. So, there is probably more conflict because when I have time, they may not be in the mood LOL.

Temperament is a combination of genes and environment.

An interesting fact that most people don't realize: there is a biiiiiiiiiiig molecule, call proopiomelanocorticotropin, which ends up being involved in the pathways to create pigment molecules AS WELL AS molecules which affect behavior in several different ways. Therefore, it should not surprise anyone if animals with different colors also behave differently -- the pathways are related.

We even accept some of these differences in human stereotypes -- ditzy blondes, firey redheads, and so on. Of course the corollation is not exact, since the pathways are very complex and since there are many things that influence behavior. But there is good science behind the connection!
-----
----

1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

>>corollation

Dang, I shouldn't try to type before I'm awake. CORRELATION
-----
----

1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Interesting facts doc!! As mentioned in my earlier post, some breeders do attribute temperament differences amongst the morph types. I am not sure this is necessarily color related, or based on the temperaments of the individuals used to produce the morphs to begin with. In other words, use what you got to produce what you want. If all you have is a calm amel and a pissy normal, well, thats what you got to produce hets to backbreed and produce more amels, etc.

Wow, that is fascinating! Thanks for the info!
-----
~Cynthia

That would also explain why the hemipenes are so huge on all my hatchling black snakes too I guess.

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Great observations, great subject.

Wouldn't doubt one bit that a recessive color or pattern gene can be associated at least somewhat with behavior.

Way back when I bred Cal kings, albinos were always the most likely to musk or rattle their tails as adults. I say adults because baby Cal kings usually do that no matter what color.

I feel you on the boa. I always thought boas were the ultimate in docility, and every prior experience I had supported that. Then I got a Central American color morph, and there are days when I cannot believe how much hatred that boa can have for me.

I did find that eliminating the hide box actually calms him down alot. Doesn't affect his feeding at all (boas always eat). I hate to do that, but I have to. If that snake can hide, he defends his territory with everything he has in him. Definitely different than kings and milks.
-----
Mark