Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all
I´m new to heterodon nasicus, but i hear that there are 6 different bloodlines of albino, that are not compatible.
Does it mean if you breed two albinos from different bloodlines, the offspring will not be albino or what?

Thanks

Jonas

Welcome Jonas!

Well, I don't know who told you this but that's the first time I've ever heard of 6 different incompatible strains of normal (T Negative) Albinos. There are though a couple of different morphs with the Albino name that are incompatible though: Albino (T Negative) which is your common variety of Albino that you typically see, "Hypo" (T Positive) Albino, Toffeebelly (which might be a form of T Positive Albino) and Pink Pastel Albino. There might be some others I missed but these are pretty much the staples in the industry. All 4 of these are recessive genetic traits and mostly incompatible (the Hypo/T Positives and the Toffeebellys have yet to be tested against each other) with each other but they can be combined to form mixed homo morphs.

I hope that is helpful.
-----
Troy Rexroth
Rextiles

Normal albino = T neg

Pink pastel albino = T neg

Lavender albino = T neg

Hypo = T pos

Toffee belly = T pos

Caramel = T neg

It is not known yet if the Hypo, Toffe, and Caramel are compatable or not... As of right now there are six different albino strains... 3 T pos and 3 T neg... That can changr if the T negs prove compatable...

NP

Ok thanks.
That answers all my questions i think.

There´s just so many unanswered questions regarding hognoses. That makes it even more interesting i think.

Jonas

Gregg, how did you come to the conclusion as to what is a T-pos and what is a T-neg? Do you have any scientific proof to back this up or are you basing this just on phenotypes and what is commonly accepted by the general consensus?

I'm not trying to be difficult about this or an ass but it got me to thinking about just how much we really know what we are talking about when we try to be definitive about the whole Tyrosinase definition. Heck, even I subscribe, ignorantly I might add, to thinking that our "normal" albinos are T-pos while the "Hypos" are T-neg. The reality of it is, I have no way to back this up either other than by going along with the general consensus of what is currently accepted. But does that mean that the general consensus is correct or that they even know what they are talking about or have the means to prove or provide even an ounce of proof? I do not entirely believe they/we do.

Like I said, I got to thinking and decided to try and research this a bit more. Along my searching journey so far I came across this interesting thread ( http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16720 ) which goes quite in depth about Tyrosinase and how it is being defined. I think everybody that "thinks" they know anything about what is T-pos or T-neg should really read this thread because there was a lot of scientific debate going on rather than people just accepting the general consensus of belief and simply restating it.

I believe a whole lot of investigation and proof needs to be delivered before we simply start tagging scientific and genetic names onto phenotypes without really knowing whether it is true or not.
-----
Troy Rexroth
Rextiles

Troy,
I know you are not trying to be an ass... LOL... Its a legit question...

I am going by what we in the reptile hobby find acceptable in terms of reptile genetics... I am going by what I see visualy... With the 3 T negs I mentioned it is pretty obvious that they do not show malanin or copper colors which would indicate that they are not producing tyrosinase... The fact that the T pos albinos I mention show at least some melanin and obvious copper tones in their skin and eyes, is a pretty good indication that they do produce tyrosinase...

It is true that in the reptile world, what we consider acceptable as genetic terms may not always be correct or the exact definition...

For example what we consider co-dominant is not really acting co-dominantly...

I guess until someone gives up some animals and puts some money up for testing genetics, I guess we are stuck with educated guessing...

While I am highly motivated to continue our discussion and addressing some of the things you've mentioned, I would like to first ask what you meant when you said this:

"For example what we consider co-dominant is not really acting co-dominantly...

Considering that the Anaconda is so far the only co-dominant hognose, what do you mean that it's not acting co-dominantly? According to Mendelian Law, it seems to be acting like it's supposed to as far as my understanding of Mendel's definition of a co-dominant trait goes. What is your understanding of how a co-dominant is supposed to act?
-----
Troy Rexroth
Rextiles

By definition alone I would say that most "co-dominant" genetics in the hobby are closer to incomplete dominance...