Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Any of you guys ever find mother rattlesnakes with their new babies? For those of you that have, did you spend time with them to see how good of moms they are? Have you gone back a few more times over a week to see how long they look after them? Have you checked the spot year after year to see how often they have babies? I've learned alot about them by doing just those things. Usually about mid August I start looking for "my" rattlesnake birthing spots (I find new spots each year too) to see if there are any gravid females hanging around, & if they are I start checking for babies the 1st week of September, that's usually when most are born here in MT. especially if we get a good rain storm. As soon as I find babies at one of my spots I start checking the rest of my spots, it seems they all have their babies in the same week. Now I don't just say "yup, there's babies" & move on to find the next herp, I spend a little time with them (sometimes over an hour) observing the new moms parenting behavior, by doing this I've learned that: babies cloud up just a couple days after birth; Mother rattlesnakes push their babies back under the rock or in the hole to keep them safe; Mother rattlesnakes look after their babies at least until the babies shed; & that rattlesnakes (at least the ones around here anyway) don't give birth at their dens, but they are not far from their dens. One thing I would like to know is do the babies follow their mother away from the birthing site? or do they just scatter & hopefully make it to the nearest den? I've never witnessed them leaving, I always get there late, once they are gone all that's left is a bunch of baby rattlesnake sheds leaving the hole. Not even the mom is around so I just wonder how far they go with the mothering. I know the idea of a snake caring for their young probably sounds crazy to most people, but rattlesnakes are different, I've observed alot of unusual things about them that I can go into later if anyone cares to know.

Here are some pics of a couple moms & their 2 piles of babies I was watching a couple weeks ago. I couldn't get any really good shots because I wasn't getting as close as usual. I was trying to get them to feel like it was cool if I was there, & that they could go about their morning as usual. Both moms kept going back & forth from one pile of babies to the next & pushing the little dummies back in the holes. But eventually the moms were cool with their babies coming back out, once they figured out I wasn't there to eat them. I hope you enjoy!

Oh yeah, I found these same 2 females in 08 with their babies in this same spot, but not last year. That's how it is at most of my spots, so I think every other year breeding is normal.

You'll have to look close at some of these to see that both females were going back & forth, moving slowly, & crossing each others paths.

See moms head

A 4th one decided to join for this pic

Thanks!

Dan Eby

Now for the depressing part. I wasn't going to put this part in here, but you'll see houses in the next part so I thought I'd explain.
This area used to be called The Big Bend Ranch, but now its being sold off in lots & is called the Big Bend Estates. I've been herping this area for quite a few years, & it was once one of my best areas. I find rattlesnakes, bulls, racers, redsided garters, hognose snakes, spadefoot toads, plains toads, & chorus frogs here so watching it be developed is about as depressing as it can get. In just the last 5 years alone I've seen 30 houses (there's more then that) go up, & a bunch more are in the process of being built. To that add the new roads cut in, & figure there are at least 2 people per household that drive those roads at least twice a day, & don't forget the developers equipment, school buses, & water delivery trucks out there all the time, The herps out there don't stand a chance. I'd bet in only 4 or 5 years I wont find a single herp there.

See the hill on this side of the river in the distance with houses next to it. That's the spot the pics of the rattlesnakes in the last post were taken. That hill is for sale. So sad.

The pics in this post are just a VERY small amount of the destructoin/development in the area.

Dan Eby

In know way is my part 2 post suppose to be an advertisement for this hill for sale,lol.

& Normally I wouldn't name the place I herp, but it cant hurt for people to know, come herp it if you'd like, it wont be here long.

Dan

np.

Development does destroy some habitat, but I don't think it completely wipes out the snakes. I know of several older subdivisions in prime snake habitat that have rattle snake dens that are just yards away from homes. Many other kinds of snakes are doing quite well in these areas as well. The human populations likely increase rodent populations, which provides more prey (that is my opinion). I also know of an area that is well documented to have had rattle snake exterminations, where hundreds of rattle snakes were killed and I can still easily find them there.

snake adventures

Well, I know what you mean, there are areas I go to that have homes & herps, but in this area I dont think that will be the case. This area is the last bit of good habitat on this side of this bend in the river. To the sides of it & behind it are neighborhood, & no snakes are found there. Accrossed the river, & on this side to the west is a different story, there is tons of habitat to check out, but this place will be gone. In the last few years I've already seen a major decrease in herps on the ranch. I only went there a few times this year because last year I didnt find much.

Dan

Dan as a native born Floridian in my lifetime I've seen numerous areas that used to be filled with herps disappear [I mean the herps vanished]. I've personally documented with Karl Switak the LAST colony of Gopher Tortoises get bulldozed in the Ft Myers area near the beach but in town. They no longer exist except a few stragglers in Lehigh Acres and in the Bonita Springs area perhaps but soon they will be killed as well...It's been repeated here OVER AND OVER AGAIN...I'm speechless as to explain how this makes me feel....
-----
Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Hey Tom,

I know how you feel, & it is the worst. I watched as a neighborhood & hotel were put up in the last spot I knew to find horned lizards around this city, & a few years ago the last of my albino spadefoot toad area was buried under concrete, & I could keep going all day talking about the areas lost. I know you've seen far worse being in FL, but I do know how you feel.

Dan

Tom,

I can tell you how it makes me feel. Angry at first, then a deep & enduring sorrow that never goes away. Every time wilderness is destroyed, I feel we are diminished. I also feel afraid because this is happens more & more..
It never changes!

In regret,
Matthew

While taking to pics of all the development I spotted this nice big rattlesnake.

Look close, its way over there.

On the way over to check this big one out a little closer I found this! Another mom & babies!

Here is the one I was headed for though

It didn't want my company!

Look, there is another one coming out

Now back to the new babies I found on the way to those ones

Dan Eby

To more suitable habitat. That is better than seeing them wiped out, in my view (legal or not).
snake adventures

I've kicked around the idea of moving some of the babies, but I just dont know enough about relocating to feel confident that most would make it in a new area. This time of year the nights are real cold, & obviously where they are at now they can stay warm at night. I just worry that if I move them they might not find a good spot. I do feel that they are going to die before they are suppose to, but I dont want it to be my fault. Do you know much about relocating snakes?

Dan

I don't know much about relocating. I was just offering that as an alternative to what you are describing will happen to them. It would seem that any SW facing rocky foothill that is well away from development would be a good spot for them. With their great instincts, they should be ok.
snake adventures

Dan...That is Amazing!!! Did you happen to get video of this? I don't know too many herpetologists that just sit there, watch and observe for extended periods of time. Really cool stuff!
Too bad about the nearby development. I think the Racers will be Ok. They're probably sitting up on that hill each picking out a basement to hibernate in! I wonder how many of those suburbanites where informed about the local poisonous snake population before they signed the check? Thanks for the post. TJ.
(Check your E-mail. I just sent you a PM)

Thanks!

No video, I wish I did though, if I ever get a good camera I can get video of it later. The people figure they save someones life every time they kill a rattlesnake, they get to feel like a hero for a day when the kill one so I dont think they mind the snakes being out there. Also, I dont think many of these people have kids to worry about getting bit, I dont think I've ever even seen one kid playing out there. These people move out here to show how successful they are, not to get outside & enjoy nature, so I doubt they are at risk of being bit by the not dangerous at all prairie rattlesnake.

Dan

Dan, I'd of bet my last plug nickle that Rattlesnake's didn't show any attention to newborn babies. Can't ever recall reading where it was documented they did; nor have I ever observed anything to suggest it. Great observation; books are great but rarely trump personal observations. I'll file that bit of knowledge away and likely use it in an argument someday. RE: the habitat destruction problem. I feel your pain and everyone else's who are dismayed by progress. Go back far enough and all our present homes and yards were once pristine habitat. Don't feel too hard toward those folks. They're just doing what we all have already helped to do before. As for me, I'm ready to go back to tribal life (not that I was ever actually there) and erect a teepee (ssp). Problem is, not enough are willing to go along with that type life style change to make a difference. Damn, sometimes I wish CH and company had won.

Thanks

Dan

Dan...

You've got a fantastic set of pics there! Yes, as you've nicely illustrated, rattlesnake moms will definitely look after their young until their first shed (and some species long after that). By and large they are more social than previously thought. Congrats on documenting this and thank you for sharing it with the rest of us!

Too bad about the habitat destruction...Here in Az I've seen MANY previously GREAT areas turned into parking lots, strip malls and condos...It really sucks.

Regarding the relocation, rattlesnake definitely display a high degree of home range fidelity....they often live their entire lives within a defined home range. I have relocated rattlesnakes from people's yards here in Phoenix, and I try to release the animals within a mile of the yard they were in. The way I see it, if the entire area is going to be houses soon, why not collect as many babies as you see and relocate them to suitable habitat? The way I see it they have a better chance of surviving there than under the foundation of a brand new home. Additionally, porvided there is suitable habitat within a few miles of these rookeries, then the snakes have a very good chance of survival. It can't hurt so long as the areas you posted pics of are going to be destroyed anyway.

-Kris