Reptile & Amphibian Forums

OK, I am not a proponent of communal housing for various reasons ingrained in my mind regarding husbandry practices. However, there are several on this forum that consider this method valuable for the well-being of the snakes. For those who communally house, what are the enclosure criterias you feel MUST be met for this to work?? Is there a space requirement per animal kept in the same enclosure that you feel must be met? Minimum hides required? Also, who do you verify all the occupants eat besides visually monitoring to ensue everyone does? Just curious. Another reason I ask is the fact I remember many years ago a petshop in New Orleans that kept a group of speckled kings together in the same cage while for sale. The cage was spartan to say the least. Yet each snake found their spot and were just coiled up and calm. I do not recall them appearing aggitated and they were definitely not in the process of consuming each other. Just looking at the opposite side of the glass.

I feel they need enough room to get away from one another if needed. Works for people too. I've always said the secret to a happy marrage is a detatched garage.
-----
“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM

Well, can you be more specific? How many and in what size enclosure are you using for an example?

being! You need to ask the snakes themselves. Listen carefully, they will tell you everything you need to know, lol.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

The house is 2900 square feet, the garage is 144. I don't need much just a place to practise saying I'm sorry when I don't even know what I did.
-----
“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM

My partner and I have separate housing on the same acreage. Even that is sometimes not enough room! I don't know how people manage in just one house, not irritating each other to death.
-----
Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

>>My partner and I have separate housing on the same acreage. Even that is sometimes not enough room! I don't know how people manage in just one house, not irritating each other to death.
>>-----

SNORT I must have a bit of kingsnake in me. Hubby and I have our own bedrooms.
-----
Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
Follow Kingsnake on Twitter!

I'm working on getting one of those!
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

It isn't, well, "a 3ft cage means one won't eat the other." No. Its about whether one snake thinks the other is not in its colony so to speak. (And perhaps there are even crazy individuals who are quick to kill another.)

An "outsider" snake to a Cal king, even if another Cal king, might be considered a meal under some circumstances by certain individual snakes. Not all act the exact same of course. But what if the other Cal king is not an "outsider"?

I had a B&W Cal king female that would attack both males I tried to breed with her. This was over 10 yrs ago, and at the time I had just gotten the idea to cool all my kings in one big plywood box outside.

After I let them stew together over Winter in that big box, I noticed she would hang out comfortably with one of the males. When I bred those two, she did not attack him at all.

Does that help? Kind of get the picture of what happened? I know that's only one example, but it is evidence. Ain't about cage size, but of course you should give them some elbow room out of the goodness of your heart and so they have a big gradient.

BTW, I found a Cal king swallowing a gophersnake, and a smaller Cal king was trying to get the gophersnake's tail end. I watched the whole process, and the small Cal gave up. Both the big Cal and the small Cal went down the same crevice afterwards. So why didn't the big Cal eat the small Cal? Ahh, grasshopper, you must ponder..
-----
Mark

Are you keeping this pair together constantly now, or just during breeding season? How big of an enclosure are you using and how many snakes do you feel you can comfortably house in that size??? Can a pair live together comfortably in a sweater box 28qt. size enclosure, or is that way too small? Also, are you feeding them all in one enclosure or separating to feed? I have a good friend of mine who breeds pyros, thayeri, alterna, and mexmex. He does brumate all his thayeri males together, pyro males together, etc. and like wise the females of the separate species together. However, he does not house any together non-brumation.

That pair stayed together for years - I gave them away some time ago. Cage was somewhat big - about 3ft x 18 deep. IMO a 24 qt box is too small - they do need some space. I think I should of used a 4ft cage..

I did separate for feeding 'cause I was too scared to try otherwise. Looking back, I should have tried more. I was already being told at the time that you cannot keep two Cal kings together, so I figured I was breaking the rules already...
-----
Mark

Cause he just ate a gopher snake maybe?
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

>>Cause he just ate a gopher snake maybe?
>>-----
Could be part of it, but not the entire story.

Moral of the story is that Cal kings that have "bonded" in some way do not typically feed on one another. There are circumstances when they are not trying to catch and swallow every other Cal king they see. Because if they did, there would be no more Cal kings.

Cal kings can find each other far better than you and I can find them. So, there is no way a population of Cal kings is eating each other into oblivion.

If you introduce two Cal kings together that have not "bonded" in some way, then cannibalism is a greater risk.
-----
Mark

Here is my problem with all this. I know it can be done. Several guys here have prooved that. I have done it in the past also! That's why I don't do it any more and I'm so much against it. Your taking a chance! It's that simple. Yes I know we take chances everyday. I had speckled Kings together for years and all was well till the one day for whatever reason one ate the other. Maybe it was my fault, maybe I went a little too long between feeding, who knows. Now some one here is gonna see people they look up to on this site doing it, and they are gonna try it, and end up with one big fat snake! I don't have many spare snakes to where I can loose one right now. If I loose a snake it means that breeding project gets delayed indefinately till I find a replacement or discard the project. My warning to anyone thinking about trying this is it might work and it might not! Don't be shocked if a Kingsnake acts like a Kingsnake!
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I was very leery of this, too, but as you know have now commenced with two trios of pyros. I offer food often, and I think that is the key to preventing them eating one another. Of course, things can go wrong, but if food is offered frequently (not in the habitat but in separate feeding containers) I think it will work out fine, at least for my pyros and pits. When they come out of brumation is the most critical time to be sure to offer food often, in my opinion. They are always very hungry then.
-----
Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire