Reptile & Amphibian Forums

First of all I apologize for my absence in the debate. I had to set up a notebook computer and since I am not a rocket scientist it took a while.

But now I will answer to Scotties question (at least I try):

Let us assume that Bush fibbed as to the reasons of the war on Iraq. Scotty meant that it has been a good thing anyway because Saddam has been wiped away and further possible casualities of his regime have been saved.

Let us also assume that the number of innocent victims of the US attack had been much more less than the number of victims of Saddam.

Let us also disregard the fact that the war on Iraq happened a long time after the majority of Saddams atrocities were committed.

Let us also disregard the fact that if Bush sen. would have done his job (I agree completely with Sobek) further victims would have been prevented.

But you have forgotten one issue:

Things are not settled in this region. Nobody can predict what effects the further presence of the US in Iraq may have. The entire region in a barrel of gun powder and you went there with a lit cigarette in your mouth. The US soldiers are nails in the flesh not only of the citizens of Iraq, but in the flesh of all muslims in the entire region.
In the first war on Iraq the nations all over the world (including the arabs) agreed to the war.
This time things are very different. And nobody can predict where this leads to.

Maybe it would have been better to stay out. Have you already forgotten Vietnam? You wanted to save Vietnam from communism and finally the entire country has been in the hands of the commies after you did your job.

Bad judgement and bad preparation then. Like this time.
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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

Funny how you always resort to Vietnam or something totally irrelevant to the issue at hand. What do you know about the condition of Iraq? Let me answer that. SQUAT! That's what. Once again you have managed to dance around the question without answering it. It is so painful for you to answer it honestly that you would rather stick a needle in your eye. It's no secret what side of the fence you're on Stoeckl. All you have to do is answer #1 or #2. It's that simple! You won't, because you can't. CHECKMATE! NEXT!!!

You designed the question, so that you get the anwser YOU want.

Lieing about war. IS EVIL, WRONG what ever you want to call it.

and Saddam is EVIL, Wrong, what ever you want to call it.

I will not side with either, both are WRONG!

Thats like me asking you. If you had to save the life of one of your parents, who would it be? Mom or dad?

#1 or #2?

That is a ridiculous and ignorant analogy. In any case, like I said before, you guys won't answer the question because you CAN'T! It would be too painful for you to admit something that doesn't suit your agenda! But okay, for the sake of argument, lets just break it down, shall we? What you have conveyed here is that if Bush lied, that is as bad as someone staying in power and performing atrocities (rape, torture,experimentation with lethal agents on civilians, executions) with his sons by his side. If that is your contention, and it most certainly is, then you sir are PATHETIC! I use the term "sir" loosely in your case.

By the way, since my father died just under two years ago I'll pick #1. Your turn to answer my question wiseass. Number one or number two! Put up or shut up!!!

You want to know what is PATHETIC? That we could have prevented alot of thoes deaths you so falsely act as if you care about.

That Bush sr. did not take him out of power when he had the chance. He left Iraq. Left all thoes people to be Killed, Tourted, Raped, by Saddam.

Take that BS to someone else..

Awww, didums we stwike a wittle nerve in Sobecky? I love those angry "I have nothing to offer so I'll just mindlessly rant" posts. Again you have managed to avoid the topic by changing the subject, lol. Your obvious anger is quite detrimental to your agenda as everyone can see your lack of knowledge that would otherwise be pertinent to these issues in your rants. You're really better off not saying anything, but I'm glad you are, lol! Any chance You'll be taking a stab at answering that question which haunts your very existence on this forum? It's simple. Just pick #1 or #2. Thanks in advance for you answer!

So you balme Bush Sr. for all Iraqi civilian deaths! Ha Ha Jackass! I get it, Saddam didn't kill any of his own until Bush Sr. decided not to take him out> What's next Mr. Mush For Brains, stories about plane crashes?

Snake Feller

PS Did "Cadillac's" death have anything to do with bleach?

Who Put Saddam in Power? Learn the history.

The sheep says: Baaaa!

So the "bottom line", as usual, is that YOY HAVE NO SOLUTION, only criticism.

What should Bush SR. have done when Saddam invaded Kuwait (did I get it right this time Sweet Pants?)?

What should Bush Jr have done to combat terrorism?

What do you say Fred, whoops I mean SoBeK?

Snake Feller

What should Bush Jr have done to combat terrorism?

He was doing just what he should have. Take care of Osama, and Afghanistan. But what did he do? Pull out!! Something your father should have done...

"I may be a moron, but at least I'm mature". That is a statement you recently made to Snakefeller. I don't know how many times you've told him to "grow up". Pot calling the kettle black? I might add that your "pull out" statement was a feeble attempt at being clever or humorous. While I admit you are a clown, you are by no means a funny one. Have you thought about that pesky little question? Care to take another stab at it? All you have to do is pick one of two whole choices, lol. Number one or number two.

How lame is your life? Give it a rest.. Both are wrong!!

Checkmate. NEXT!

... that's exactly your problem and the problem of your president.

Things aren't only black and white and there is no thing like either #1 or #2.

And it is wrong to say either they are with us or against us. This kind of contemplating things make you do foolish things that can lead into a disaster.
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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

LMAO! Who said anything in this thread about being with us or against us? Is that just another diversionary tactic to avoid my question? Why of course it is! The simple fact of the matter is, no matter how hard you guys try to put a spin on my question, there is nothing you can say to make this a complicated issue. It isn't. Contrary to what you want these people to believe, that question IS as simple as black and white and you know it. As I've said before, you won't answer it because it would be too painful for you to admit something that is not conducive to your agenda...PERIOD! You know it and I know it. Now everybody knows it. I must admit that making you lie even to yourself while you twitch and squirm trying to find a way out of your empty well kind of gives me a degree of satisfaction that could be likened to a euphoric (look it up) experience, lol. Thank you! I can't wait to see you dance around this subject some more. Please be hasty with that next reply.

"... that's exactly your problem and the problem of your president.

Things aren't only black and white and there is no thing like either #1 or #2."

Iguess Bush would be your hero today if he all US contractors to Iraq to construct a mile high wall around Iraq?

Bush certainly knows that the situation wasn't black and white, but thankfully he is a man of action and he was decisive, and he made the right decision.

No one is surprised that the situation in Iraq is still volatile. Democracy wasn't expected to be in place by this time. You have jumped the gun in your haste to blame the US for everything possible.

It's obvious that as Iraq becomes more and more stable, you will become less and less satisfied. So get all of youe cheap shots in now Mr, Wall builder.

Snake Feller

Seriously, without all the sarcasm and rhetoric, do you think that Bush lied in any way. Or at the very least was misled by the intelligence reports he was recieving. It just seems that with whats been coming out lately, that the reasons he originally brought forth for going to war have been at the very least partiially discredited. Your thoughts?

To be honest with you, I don't know if he lied or not. No one here does either. I do know this. I believe Bush is a sincere guy with the best interest for our country. I never really gave a crap about the reason because I thought it was a trivial matter. If it took him lying to me to get a job like that done, I'm not in the least bit concerned about it. I personally don't think he lied. But again, I condone whatever it takes to topple a sick piece of crap like Saddam. If that type of thinking makes me a jerk, so be it. I guess I'm a jerk. But I'll take being a jerk over knowing that Saddam is brutalizing innocent civilians anyday! I'd like to know how many people posting here have never lied. Everyone on this planet has lied about something and if anyone denies that...theye're lying, lol!

I'll tell you what Bush is, A Chicken $hit, draft dodging, ex Junkey. You so blindlessly follow him, agreeing with what ever he spouts off. If he told you to put on a red dress, and stone the elderly, I bet you would

First of all wiseass, I was addressing Kanuk, not your sorry, pathetic, mindless ranting, non-wantin' to expose who you really are, Anti-American punk! Save your verbal diarrhea for someone who gives half a runny crap (no pun intended). I'm sick of your foundationless, hypocritical blathering. I answered Kanuk's post in an honest, sincere manner, which is something totally alien to you. At least I answer questions here. Why don't you do something constructive and answer the question I posed regarding the lesser of two evils. Better yet, don't say anything. Your opinions here amount to, and are worth...JACK SQUAT! You can take your irrelevant, misplaced anger and stick it where the sun doesn't shine, putz! Stop blaming everyone else for your stinking problems. And get a friggin' job instead of mooching off the government that you so carelessly whine about. I've got news for ya' pal. Bush isn't the cause of all your misfortunes. YOU are! Beat it pest!!!

Antibury

NEXT!

Again I say. He who can not attack the thought, insted attacks the thinker..

Go back and read the post you submitted in response to my acknowledgement to Kanuk. Is that your idea of a thought? If it is, I'm Albert Einstein! Practice what you preach. Better yet, don't preach, hypocrite!

Boapit

Why does the truth hurt your lil feeling?

"The US soldiers are nails in the flesh not only of the citizens of Iraq"

and this why everytime we approach one, they offer me there paychecks, cars, belongings, and homes. they also nothing to say but thank you for being there. a gallop pole was taken and 95 percent of IRAQI's interviewed were happy we are here and more upset about the terrorists that have come in to disban the
US military. Thats why in Northen Iraq, a terrost tried to kill and American soldier the LOCALS jumped in and stopped him. Well was that one on CNN? makes you say hmmmmmm...doesn't.

Herman you have just personally offended me and up to this point you haven't. You need to learn first hand what is going on before you run off at the mouth.

Again come on down, give some food out, do a good deed to the people of IRAQ. or is what snake fellar says is true you would rather help terrorist than innocent people.

froggy
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The next time the shuttle lands, lets all get dressed up in ape suits and charge at the astronaughts yelling and ranting. That way they can try to figure out where they took a wrong turn.

... the last thing I want to do is to offend you. I don't want to call you a liar either.

But what you write is the opposite to that was we civilians outside of the Iraq read in the newspapers and see on the tv screen. And I mean in EVERY NEWSPAPER and EVERY channel (including cnn).

We have a lot people here from this region as asylum seeker and I know these guys. It is hard for me to believe that they like you.

We see interviews where citizens tell the reporters that you behave like boasters with you tanks and guns and that you should leave them alone because they are able to reign themselves.

Sorry, but this is what we see and read (and not only by european medias).

So what is the truth?
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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

well how much do you think people would watch the news if all they showed was the good things? well you believe what you think is right and i will believe what i experience is right.
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The next time the shuttle lands, lets all get dressed up in ape suits and charge at the astronaughts yelling and ranting. That way they can try to figure out where they took a wrong turn.

the seek asylum because they are criminals in there country.
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The next time the shuttle lands, lets all get dressed up in ape suits and charge at the astronaughts yelling and ranting. That way they can try to figure out where they took a wrong turn.

... that you are an US citizen located in Iraq for the time being and that you know that most of the asylum seekers are criminals in their country (and also here in Germany).

You are perfectly right, man. The only ones that doesn't seem to realize this are our politicians.

I haven't said that I believe what the medias are telling me. I am aware that WE ALL are manipulated by medias and politicians. It's hard to tell the truth from lies or even worst half-truth.

Without being there I think it also depends on the region how the people react on the US soldiers. There may be regions where the natives are very hostile and elsewhere they are friendly.

If it is so then I am glad that you are in a region with friendly people.

By the way I have had the chance to go into the Kosove in order to educate native police officers there. I refused because in my opinion one should build a high stone wall around such countries (Jugoslavia, Iraq and so on) and leave them alone.
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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

that you are an US citizen located in Iraq for the time being and that you know that most of the asylum seekers are criminals in their country (and also here in Germany).

why is that funny? because i am not a coward and i will come train a security force to protect there own country?

Without being there I think it also depends on the region how the people react on the US soldiers. There may be regions where the natives are very hostile and elsewhere they are friendly.

well lets see i have been north, east, south, and west and they are all the same.

By the way I have had the chance to go into the Kosove in order to educate native police officers there. I refused because in my opinion one should build a high stone wall around such countries (Jugoslavia, Iraq and so on) and leave them alone.

worng countries like that should not be left alone, we did that wiht germany years ago and looked what happened...Hitler.

we go into countries like this to prevent holocaust. REGIME CHANGE, why is it so hard for you guys to get that through?

on a lighter note.....
herman the only way to reconciel our differences is for you to give me one of your monster tail surinames....lol
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The next time the shuttle lands, lets all get dressed up in ape suits and charge at the astronaughts yelling and ranting. That way they can try to figure out where they took a wrong turn.

LOL! I knew you would find a way to dance around Froggy's post. I'm starting to think you believe your own lies. I guess Froggy is just imagining the things taking place over there, lol. If I had to bet on either your sources or Froggy for accurate info, you can bet your ars my money's on Froggy every time! I'll win every bet too.

"So what is the truth?"

Froggy, with the patience of a saint, has just, once again, given you a first hand account of what the Iraqi people REALLY think of American soldiers in Iraq.

"So what is the truth?"

Strockl, even after you mention how the media that you rely on to get your "facts" cannot be trusted, in response to Froggy's front-line account you ask the following ludicrous question:

"So what is the truth?"

Yoy have just been informed Stroeckl of the truth and you looked the other way like you always do. You are pathetic!

Snake Feller

PS You Germans have a thing for BUILDING WALLS. I supposed you regard the people in Iraq and Kosovo as animals? Do you think your German race is more SUPERIOR? You remind me of someone in your countries wretched past. Please don't speak here anymore on behalf of the Iraqi people.

... wants to become the next president of the USA?
The very Wesley Clark who critized Bush for having no plan what to do after Iraq is defeated?

I think you should vote for him.
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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

And I am We need some one with his background in office, and not some money hungery cowboy! Polls say if they voted today, Bush would loose to him I just hope Bush dont break us till 04!

That's exactly why he's bashing Bush. Everyone who is looking to take his place is bashing him. Duh-uh! Funny how hidden agendas ALWAYS seem to crop up with regard to Bush bashers. How provocative!

Number one or number two! Which is the lesser of two evils? A simple question which requires a simple answer. Buk Bgawk!