Reptile & Amphibian Forums

what this guy would eat? I tried everything! Till now I was giving him fuzzy tails. Nextr step is to scent a pinky with Corn.

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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra
www.mykingsnakes.piczo.com

Wow, that is gruesome! But also most fulfilling (oh no another bad pun! LOL!)that you found something he will eat.
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

I really didn't want to do that, cause I don't want it to get a taste for snakes. But it was a last resort thing.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra
www.mykingsnakes.piczo.com

if not that snake will be 4 foot in 12 months easily. Next time cut the corn in half. Feeze the rest.... good to have in your freezer for scenting
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

>>if not that snake will be 4 foot in 12 months easily. Next time cut the corn in half. Feeze the rest.... good to have in your freezer for scenting
>>Tom Stevens
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>>TomsSnakes.com
>>twitter.com/TomsSnakes

Well I have one from Virginia that was sent to me with a corn in it's belly. I also thought it would probably regurge, but to my surprise it digested the whole thing. You are right though, I think it is highly likely.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra
www.mykingsnakes.piczo.com

That corn was a little large for that king, but I've done the same thing and never had a regurge. Only when a king ate another king...

>>That corn was a little large for that king, but I've done the same thing and never had a regurge. Only when a king ate another king...

The corn looks thicker than he really was cause he inflated himself with air while the struggle was happening. I wanted to take gradual pictures of the event, but after an hour the chain was still trying to swallow the head. The corn had actually bitten the king and the king ended up forcing the corns mouth open to the point I thought it was going to rip the botton lip off. I tried to intervene but, I couldn't loose the thing. I got tired of standing there and went away for a while. When I came back it was over.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

good suggestion,though this worked

I do know what you mean - at first glance it does look out of proportion.

In reality that corn isn't too big at all - its big, but a king can handle that just fine, provided there is enough warmth (and cool) in the cage.

Ive seen wild Cal kings stuffed, and I know these kings aren't regurging. Granted, the wild is different, and wild kings are tougher in that regard, but I think it is underestimated just what versatile predators kings can be.

This forum is funny like that. One the one hand it is often suggested here that any king is such the snake eater that it will attack and eat any other king in its path, yet a skinny cornsnake will be a concern?
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Mark

Mark, sure all that can be quite true, but kings and any other type of snake for that matter will also kill anything that smells like ample prey and "attempt" to eat it regardless of size too. Whether or not they can always be swollowed or digested always depends on many things.

I don't think anyone here said it will "definitely" be regurged, but it is definitely always a possibility. Even in the wild I am quite sure if a king has one third of a snake hanging out of it's mouth for a couple days that it could not ingest, things won't go real well there either...LOL! It all depends on many variables, and I'm sure you know this.

I certainly agree that kings have one helluva degesting metabolism, but it still doesn't mean that one will never regurge, or "can't" regurgitate if conditions do not support said meal. That is all my point was.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I hate it when I re-read a post and it sounds like I am Mr Know-it-all (just about all my posts, lol.) The "Cmon guys" was unnecssary. I do agree with you that myself or anyone else really can't know if the snake will regurge or not regurge because we do not know the conditions the snake is being kept in. I certainly respect both of your opinions!

I suppose some of those posts by some folks here about "weak" or "challenged" snakes just got me thinking that we don't give enough credit to the capabilities of these animals under the right conditions.
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Mark

Oh, no problem at all there Mark, I know you didn't mean it like that at all. I think we are one the very same page man!

Nobody can know everything about every single snake on the this planet.

Well,......most of us anyway..

later, ~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

a snake can make a bad choice????
say it ain't so!
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

I know!, it's hard to believe, ain't it??..HAHA!

And here I always thought they had a great reasoning for crapping in their water bowls.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I know what you are saying but I think many frustrated King keepers have thrown an entire live snake in with a King as a last resport and then the King decides to attactk it immediately....
You want the King to eat, but worry over the size of the meal but you let it go on...
I have had em puke... and not puke... but I personally think a half of a snake is better than a whole. That is when it is a baby King ayway..
Tom
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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

First of all, nice looking snake! I remember reading in some old books that Eastern kings were basically not rodent eaters but I never hear any of that on this forum. How true is that? Is it common to have problems getting the hatchlings on pinkies?
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>>First of all, nice looking snake! I remember reading in some old books that Eastern kings were basically not rodent eaters but I never hear any of that on this forum. How true is that? Is it common to have problems getting the hatchlings on pinkies?
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I haven't got that much experience with the Chain Kings, so maybe others will chime in?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra
www.mykingsnakes.piczo.com

As hatchlings a lot of Eastern kings and some Florida kings will not take rodents straight away. Most will take pinkies scented with snake blood. The last few hold out for live snakes. 99% of adults will take mice or rats right away, but even then some want them snake scented.

Interesting stuff. Thanks for the reply.
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Well, it's good it ate something, BUT that first meal it just now ate is WAAAY too big for it to be able to properly digest as Tom also mentioned. There is no way in hell it can digest what is all piled-up in it's upper neck region. It has to be in the stomach or it will simply rot and will be regurged.

That is a very BIG draw back to it's health actually, and you just might have taken three steps back instead of one step forward allowing it to eat that huge of a meal.

A meal 1/3rd of that size would have been a good-sized initial meal for that guy to be honest.

I think I would palpate it out right now to be honest, then give it a week or so to rejuvinate it's stomach acids, enzymes, and electrolytes and gut flora, THEN offer it a scented pink with cornsnake. Then simply scent less and less until it accepts plain unscented pinks for you.

Good luck with it man!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Hey doug I used the skinniest baby I had cause it hasn't been eating either. But it was a few days ago and so far so good.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra
www.mykingsnakes.piczo.com

Yeah, I guess if it is continuously pushed down before it goes bad, there is a possibility of it being digested providing it has some decent warmth to help the digestion process along.

Hope it goes okay man. It would probably be much better from now on to feed it pinks scented with corn..LOL!

I had problems with some getula hatchlings before myself, and they wouldn't accept ANYTHING!, not anoles, live pinks, dead pinks, F/T pinks, brained, frogs, washed pinks, fish scented pinks, or even cornsnakes. Thy coiled right up with the corns and took naps together like they were buddies..LOL!

FINALLY they did start eating F/T on there own thank God!, they were some of the most stubborn hatchlings I've ever initially had!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I did try scenting pinks with baby yellow rats, but nothing. I am hoping this will kick start his appetite, and will take scented pinks from now on. I hear you on the possible problems. I feel the same way. What gave me the idea was the one that was shipped to me with a cornsake in it and she is fine. Even after shipping she didn't regurge, go figure?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

.......sometimes ya never know what might hit the feeding "switch" and what won't..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Usually if a stubborn feeder will take a meal other than a pink mouse it is rather easy to get them onto a pink mouse scented with that first meal......

I thought Alterna and Thayeri had the bad reputation as being stubborn feeders......It seems L. g. getula should be up there with them in my opinion.......But I have no experience with them to make that broad of a statement.....

I think thayeri are easy to get to feed on Pink mice now....It is simple to get them on live pinks, but sometimes difficult to get them on f/t pinks.......Alterna are still a little stubborn for me, but I guess it's just my technique/husbandry so far.....Continual tweaking and they will be just as simple, I believe.......

Good luck with that one Jorge.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Yeah, it's weird, sometimes it seems there is no rhyme or reason that some forms of getula are like this, and sometimes not. Even from one clutch to the next from the same parents there can be totally different feeding habits of some accepting pinks right off the bat(or anything for that matter), and some having complete "lock-jaw" and not accept anything at all for a couple months no matter what..LOL!

I talked to many seasoned keepers regarding floridana's, Easterns, SFMK's and other ssp, and some of them have had real problems too.

One good thing however, and that is even though I have had my fair share of initial problem feeders of different types of kings in the past, they have always pulled through after a good while and started feeding voraciously on pinks, so at least it all worked out well at the end. Sometimes a few force-fed small anoles made all the difference in keeping them alive until the finally DID decide to eat voluntarily. This is one of the most important things in my opinion, just simply keeping them alive at all cost until something finally "clicks" in their heads to open their mouths and actually eat.

Even a couple floridana I produced last year were like that, and I tried all SORTS of things and tricks to no avail. But ever since that first voluntary feeding they finally accepted, they eat as voraciously as a great white shark and come shooting out to grab whatever moves since that day..LOL!

Once they start, there is absolutely no stopping them, but sometimes they can be real pains initially like some of the thayeri and alterna once in a while.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I have 2 stubborn alterna that had not eaten. Finally resorted to brainin and it actually worked for one. Certainly my least favorite way to feed...Dave.

Besides snake's taking F/T right away for me, braining is my second preferred choice on the F/T. Getting live pinks, or raising them where I am at is a definite "no-can-do" for me. Going to the pet store for live as far away as it is is actually one of my last resorts..LOL!

Just about anything that will ONLY accept live here after a while are the very first to be sold. I will only keep snakes that accept F/T on a steady basis.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Yeah split braining works a large percent of the time! For everything from Graybands to corns. There seems to always be a few though, that just hold out till the end.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

For sure man!.......

Remember that nice looking original anery BHB male Hondo I showed you that I payed $800 bucks for back in like 1996??

He was a real pain when I first got him and he didn't eat ANYTHING for several weeks at ALL, then I brained a pink and put it in front of him with some long tongs, and the brain material scent made him go absolutely BONKERS in a fraction of a second!!! he grabbed it by the head before he could even finish flicking his tongue back in his mouth..LOL!

I swear I could almost actually "see" his light switch flick on inside his tiny little skull..HAHAA!!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Hey man I bet you were chewing your fingernails after paying that much and the snake wouldn't eat? What a relief I bet when he took that pinky! But yeah, I don't know what it does but it works wonders, most of the time!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Yes, you ain't kiddin'!!. I was really getting nervous after a while after paying the huge bucks that thing cost back then, and it wouldn't eat anything for so darn long..LOL!

But from that day on, the old boy is one of the most easy-going, laid-back, best eaters I have in the entire collection..LOL!

He is one excellent breeder too, he would "knock boots" with the females in seconds flat!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I had a very similar situation once, but it was with an adult Cal king. Juveniles might or might not be different. I fed a Striped Racer that was a little longer than my king. He looked identical to that with the bulging reaching the neck area. At the time I was thinking there was no way that part of the racer would make it to the belly before starting to rot. I was afraid the king would regurg that extra part but he never did. It took like a week for him to digest most of it. Every day I would see the bulging move closer and closer to its stomach.
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>>I had a very similar situation once, but it was with an adult Cal king. Juveniles might or might not be different. I fed a Striped Racer that was a little longer than my king. He looked identical to that with the bulging reaching the neck area. At the time I was thinking there was no way that part of the racer would make it to the belly before starting to rot. I was afraid the king would regurg that extra part but he never did. It took like a week for him to digest most of it. Every day I would see the bulging move closer and closer to its stomach.
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I had a similar experience a LONG time ago with an adult w/c Splendida...I think it was 1993 or 1994...This guy would only take live mice that had no white on them.....Only Blacks, browns and grays......Really, the white ones scared him.....

Well I could not find any dark colored mice in town back then so I went hunting for field mice.....All I found a pretty big checkered garter snake....So I took it home and fed it to the Splendida.....The splendida was only about 3 inches longer than the garter and he ate it.....and digested it...it took him three months before he wanted another dark mouse meal.........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Good deal!,....

Yeah, I'm glad that worked at for you then, because many times it doesn't end quite so well as you know.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com