Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Do you think these savs are really captive bred?
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They are maybe captive born. I highly doubt they are captive bred and born though.

I wonder if they are better then captive hatched. As far as being pets go. Mine are captive hatched and they cannot be kept together.

They are most definitely NOT captive bred. More likely Farm hatched.

How would they be better than captive hatched? I don't understand that question.

More often than not group dynamics are a result of husbandry. Of course there are individuals that are goofy but not usually. IF yours are goofy something you can try for your savs that don't get along is cool them together and them bring them back up to temps together.

You could try cooling them, turning off all basking lights and keep that at room temps for a week or 2 and then bring the temps back up to normal. As long as they are healthy you shouldn't have any problems with lack of a heat for a bit.

"How would they be better than captive hatched? I don't understand that question."

It seems like people who raise monitors that are hatched together have a greater success in keeping them from killing each other. I raised three captive hatched together and they beat each other up and ended up killing the smallest one. Maybe if they are all from the same clutch the odds will be better? I don't know.

I think monitors are pretty territorial but thats JMO.

Hello,

These ARE Captive Bred. I'm not sure why some people are so certain they are not? We have both CB and Farm Raised Imports. We sell the CB on our website to the public for $39.95 each. We sell the farm babies to pet shops for $19.95 ea. - we do have a $1000 min. order for pet stores. For obvious reasons we do not list all of our inventory on our public website. If aniamls are CB or WC we list them as such on our website, and we most certainly don't lie or mislead our customers.

Thank you,
Lonna Thompson - Customer Service
Florida Herps, Inc.
3809 Lorraine Road
Lakewood Ranch, FL 34211
(800) 844-5203 - 7 Days a Week - 10am to 6pm EST
(866) 261-3820 24/7 Fax Ordering
sales@floridaherps.com
www.FloridaHerps.com

I would like to see pics of the breeder adults, and eggs would be nice too. Captive breeding of any monitor is relatively rare let alone Bosc's. Whoever bred them sure derserves praise and my sympathy for selling all their hard work for a measly 20-$40. You couldn't feed house and heat a pair of bosc's for the $600 you'd make on a clutch... Just saying...

You see the burden of proof is on you, saying they are CB doesn't make them so.

I would like to see pics of the breeder adults, and eggs would be nice too. Captive breeding of any monitor is relatively rare let alone Bosc's. Whoever bred them sure derserves praise and my sympathy for selling all their hard work for a measly 20-$40. You couldn't feed house and heat a pair of bosc's for the $600 you'd make on a clutch... Just saying...

You see the burden of proof is on you, saying they are CB doesn't make them so.

And if I post pictures you or someone like you will just say they are faked or someone elses. We have no problems sending photos of what we have, but you arent even a customer. We have no idea who you are and how you think you know about us is amazing. Just because you are unaware of people breeding these means nothing. We do NOT breed these or ANY other reptile. We simply buy and sell them. We disclose this on our website. The couple that breeds these are not into this for money, they simply bought a pair of monitors from us many years ago and when they have babies we buy them all. We do this we several species and have since 1996.

Go online and call a reputable company liars then tell them to prove you wrong. This is why so many larger reptile companies avoid these forums like the plauge.

I said what I had to say to the person the started this thread. If he would like to call and talk to us or request pictures, length, weight, diet, etc. that is great. If anyone else would like to call us liars, please just use the phone, my name is Lonna.

Florida Herps, Inc.
3809 Lorraine Road
Lakewood Ranch, FL 34211
(800) 844-5203 - 7 Days a Week - 10am to 6pm EST
(866) 261-3820 24/7 Fax Ordering
sales@floridaherps.com
www.FloridaHerps.com

I can understand your defensive tone, this is afterall your livelihood and to have your integrity as a business questioned on a public forum is not easy.

I suppose it is possible that someone is breeding these monitors and not a single person connected to the reptile community is aware of it. That is possible and if it's the case then I would retract my earlier statement and apologize to you.

It is not unfair or unreasonable to ask you to prove something that has been done by only a handful of people in the U.S.
It's not that people aren't breeding them, it's that they can't breed them. If you were selling CB leopard geckos of course it'd be silly for me to question that.

You are hesitant to provide proof that's fine. But you should know that if you provided proof on a forum such as this You would most likely not be able to keep CB bosc's in stock at those prices. They'd be flying off the shelves as they say. You see many people on here, myself included are constantly giving advice to individuals with FH WC monitors. We try to help them save their animals by supplying good husbandry but often it's not enough, their lil WC or FH bosc has suffered irreparable kidney damage and it wouldn't have mattered what they did. So it would be wonderful if we could point these individuals to a source of cheap CB bosc's and eliminate many of the hurdles in keeping them.

Hi, I was not trying to trash anyones business and I am not calling anyone a liar either. I was just wondering the story on them. I've never been able to find captive bred savs but I know there are probably some out there here and there on occasion. Thank you for responding.

>Hi, I was not trying to trash anyones business and I am not >calling anyone a liar either. I was just wondering the story on >them. I've never been able to find captive bred savs but I know >there are probably some out there here and there on occasion. >Thank you for responding.

Hi Elidogs,

I know you were just asking a simple question and not bashing anyone. Honestly I wouldnt have replied if not for the resident self-proclaimed sava-guru calling my 3 generation family business liars. This is pretty typical on forums though. This is why the majority of reptile "companies" refuse to post. Its just not worth the time and hassle over a lizard we make 10 bucks on.

If you take 30secs on Google, you'll find several other places that have CB savs for about the same price. Of course they are all liars according to the kid posting crap on here. But not as hard to find as you might think.

Thanks,
Lonna Thompson - Customer Service
Florida Herps, Inc.
3809 Lorraine Road
Lakewood Ranch, FL 34211
(800) 844-5203 - 7 Days a Week - 10am to 6pm EST
(866) 261-3820 24/7 Fax Ordering
sales@floridaherps.com
www.FloridaHerps.com

All anyone is asking for is proof of what you claim. The problem is, your story is repeated over and over. Yet no pics are ever posted to back up the talk.

I would require anyone to support their statements, you said, you have two seperate catagories of baby savs. How do we know that?

Savs are imported INTO FLA, by the tens of thousands, so access to imported savs is very easy for fla resalers. And there are many many fla resalers out to make a middleman buck. Many claim to have True CB savs, yet none provide evidence.

So do not take it personal, just post support of your claims.

Everything you have said about your business is great, but it has nothing to do with suppporting your claims. You want use to base your claims on trust, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm WHY?

Please, you made the statements, now please back them up with something to convince us your telling the truth.

True captive hatched Savs occur, but in such small numbers and not on a yearly basis, even when produced, in such small numbers, that its very odd that so many Dealers of importers reptiles, have them. In the world of captive hatched varanids, they have to be produced in large numbers to make it to your type of list. So proof would be easy to obtain. Cheers

>I can understand your defensive tone, this is afterall your >livelihood and to have your integrity as a business questioned >on a public forum is not easy.

Yep, nothing like being called a liar by someone on a forum that knows nothing about us, you're right - pretty lame.

>I suppose it is possible that someone is breeding these >monitors and not a single person connected to the reptile >community is aware of it. That is possible and if it's the case >then I would retract my earlier statement and apologize to you.

Wow, so you are the center of the reptile world huh? If YOU dont know about something it must not exist. You "suppose its possible" huh? No need to try and sugar coat your opinion now, this is just calling me a liar again. Strange I work for a reptile company that was founded by a Vet. (my father in law Dr. William Thompson) - we've been in business for nearly 15 years, have multiple locations in Florida and yet we've never heard of you. Just saying...

>It is not unfair or unreasonable to ask you to prove something >that has been done by only a handful of people in the U.S.

So which is it? First you state nobody in the reptile community does this, and now its a handful? And please dont forget about all the CB Sav. from Europe - or are they are liars too?

I agree its not unfair to ask questions, just a little juvenile to call a company liars on a public forum because you think you know of everything that goes on in the reptile community. Why is it only small time hobbiest breeders post on here? Oh yeah, because REAL companies like ourselves normally dont waste time responding to such nonsense.

>It's not that people aren't breeding them, it's that they can't >breed them. If you were selling CB leopard geckos of course >it'd be silly for me to question that.

So now its people "can't" breed them? You need to make up your mind Sir. You've changed your opinion three times in this one email. Is it cant, dont or wont? Ya lost me.

>You are hesitant to provide proof that's fine. But you should >know that if you provided proof on a forum such as this You >would most likely not be able to keep CB bosc's in stock at >those prices.

I sure don't recall being hesitant about any of this. I got an email from a long time customer of ours saying some kid called our company liars - so at almost 1am I was up posting. I simply stated the truth. We do NOT breed anything. We sold some savs. to a couple a few years ago. We got a call 2 weeks ago that said they had 4 babies hatched. We stopped by and made them an offer. This isnt even the first time we've had CB Savs. But I guess because we didnt let YOU know about them they must not really exist. Hmm. I guess I could call our source up and ask them for photos just to satisfy some non customer on a forum.

>They'd be flying off the shelves as they say. You see many >people on here, myself included are constantly giving advice to >individuals with FH WC monitors. We try to help them save their >animals by supplying good husbandry but often it's not enough, >their lil WC or FH bosc has suffered irreparable kidney damage >and it wouldn't have mattered what they did.

I think thats great that you give advice to people that dont know as much as yourself. We however are not those people. And I fail to understand how calling Florida Herps, Inc. full of crap is helpful to anyone. You didnt even state your opinion as such, you said we are liars and acted like you know it all. Hmm, a know it all on a forum. Who woulda thunk it?

>So it would be wonderful if we could point these individuals >to a source of cheap CB bosc's and eliminate many of the >hurdles in keeping them.

That's great that you feel an obligation to help others, but you should do your homework before stating your single opinion as a matter of fact. You are the reason none of the other large reptile wholesalers will post on here EVER! I've been a lurker on here for years and this is my first time taking to the time to post, and only because I dont appreciate being called a liar by some forum poster we've never heard of.

I looked and I see you have alot of time on your hands to post your opinions on here. So here is another forum you might be interested in. Here is another company selling CB Sav for $40, go ahead and call them liars too!

http://www.herpsofarkansas.com/forum/topic/4460/true-captive-bred-baby-savannah-monitors-for-sale/

His name is Marc, he's a nice guy - but please, go call him and his company liars because obviously he cant possibly have real CB Savs. - they dont exist, just ask some guy name Nate83. Wow.

Reptile City has CB savs for $40 as well. Dont forget to call them liars. I even know where Ha-Ha Reptiles gets their CB Savs. The sale place we got our batch last Xmas.

http://www.sugargliderpetshop.com/Monitors.htm They also have CB Savs for $40. More damn liars...

http://www.diamondreptile.com/pricelist.htm Better go call these guys liars as well. CB 07's for only $35!!! And does this mean reptile companies have had CB savs since at least 2007? Nope, that couldnt be right because you are unaware of them.

Anyways, I'm done. We just opened and I have work to do. I'm not going to reply on this anymore. We have an 800# to discuss these things, oddly enough.

Lonna Thompson - Customer Service
Florida Herps, Inc.
3809 Lorraine Road
Lakewood Ranch, FL 34211
(800) 844-5203 - 7 Days a Week - 10am to 6pm EST
(866) 261-3820 24/7 Fax Ordering
sales@floridaherps.com
www.FloridaHerps.com

You just made it clear to everyone on here, who the naive one truly is Thank you for pointing out how many "reputable" companies are misrepresenting their animals. Thanks but no thanks none of us are interested in having mass wholesalers frequent this site. They have no husbandry knowledge to offer. Hobby breeders right? Actually the gentleman responsible for the biggest strides in monitor husbandry is a frequent poster here. Currently there is nothing BUT hobby breeders. There are no larger scale breeders producing monitors.

My opinion wasn't changed 3 times. A handful of people USED to breed them. No one that anyone knows of breeds them currently. No one breeds them currently but it's not for lack of trying. See 3 seperare FACTS that are true subjective to a certain chronological order.

I agree with everything Nate has said minus the cooling part, there are better and even easier ways to introduce Monitors.

Back to the original subject on True Captive bred, and born Bosc's!

FlordaHerps if you truly bred them, you'd have photos of the adults, adults breeding, female laying eggs, eggs in the incubator, and eggs hatching. Anyone who has ever bred almost any Monitor species has does this, because it's not a common event, and it's much harder said than done. If you really did breed them, you would have posted the proof without argument to the fact. As no one is currently regularity producing them in the US. As far as I know RCMonitors was the last guy to produce them year after year for a few years, and this was 4-5 years ago.

If you are going to say they were bred in Africa I'll call your BS, as all they do is collect gravid females till they lay, incubate the eggs, then sell them, sure it may be 'captive born' but they are still WC animals. Then they just let the mothers go where ever they are, not letting them go back into their known home range. The babies are hardly if ever fed then shipped off to the US, then to a wholesaler, then to a dealer, then pet stores, then some kid buying them. All the way never kept in good conditions, most of them already dead, or dieing, and hardly fed.

So please if you really did bred them, share photos of the events.

Cheers,
Chad

Thanks Chad for not letting me be the lone voice on this subject.

I'd be interested to hear your views on introduction. Maybe we can get this thread back to a husbandry discussion.

I'm aware that most "battles" between monitors in a cage are due to lack of resources but sometimes it seems that's not enough.

I have a pair of Gouldi crosses. I had a lone male for a couple years and fell into an additional "male". The original male terrorized the heck out of the new addition. Then I moved. They sat in an unheated aquarium (solid top) and were only given water. After 2 weeks I finally set them up in their trough and I never had a problem again. In fact the additional "male" laid a clutch of eggs(infertile) for me last weekend. I brought up the sudden turn around to FR and he mentioned that he has seen that work with many others. My 2 weeks of neglect ended up being a previously used "let's all get along" technique. I'm sure there are other good methods but that is one that worked for me. I previously never had issues with cagemate aggression.

I've never worked with Flavis but I've heard they can be harder to co-inhabitant.

My views on introducing new animals, if either a whole next cage, or redoing most if not all of the cage the original animal was already in, by removing logs, and adding new ones, with different scents, and simply just remodeling the enclosure.

Even then it's no 100% surefire way saying they will get along fine and dandy. Sometimes they rough it out anyways to show dominance. Even male/female pairs one of the animals will me more dominate than the other.

Cheers,
Chad

Thanks for the input Chad. I agree that changing things up can definitely help.

You're an albig guy right? I think I remember seeing you on another forum. I like albigs in fact I LOVE them but just can't commit the space and food to them.

Well I was the albig guy. I am currently only keeping 3 V. similis, and a 1.0 V. tristis. I actually went 3 years without keeping Varanids till this last August when I picked up the similis.

I moved and didn't have the space of my albigs, plus what I had them in 12x4x4 I felt it was much to small. Someday, I will keep them again but not anytime soon. As I will be providing a much larger space than a 12x4x4.

Cheers,
Chad

A few months ago there was an ad on Craigslist, Miami area. The ad was selling baby savannahs and showed photos of copulating adults, eggs in dirt, eggs incubating, pipping with sav heads, and a pile of babies. The ad has since expired and the photos removed. I guess some folks are breeding them and getting results. Not everyone is posting their goodies on forums.

Cheers

John

Hi john, How have you been?
Its true, a few are hatched here and there. May I ask, what were they asking for the captive hatched babies?

Also how does one clutch cover several importers sales? Also if the dealers are asking $40, how much did they pay for them?

Lastly, all that was asked was that the dealer provide the evidence that you saw on craigslist. Which they failed to do. Cheers

In Europe a small dealer could find baby WC exanthematicus for only 5 euros for a 100 lot.

There is only a few CB babys each year, and some years there is no one !
Who will sale thoses rares babys for only 15 or 20 euros to a resaler? So many peoples will buy those rares CB babys for probably more than 100 euros !

Hi Frank,

All is well, thanks. From my understanding, these captive bred babies were bought up by Underground Reps... not sure what they sold for. I wish I had saved their photos, it was an interesting ad showing the adults including their cages, etc. The adult savs were literally dressed in shirts- I guess the owners cared for them like dogs.

Regards,

John