Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This has never happened to me before but one of my alternas just became a yearling. He has appeared very healthy but the last 2 days including today he has pooped really weird stools reddish brown color, more brown than reddish and no blood. Smells foul like a pinkie left out for a while. He just regurgitated his meal today too. No weight loss and still has an appetite, but maybe the hot or change in weather? He has been very active as well including today. I always do give him one large pinkie with calcium once a month but overdid it with 2 this month. Could calcium also cause this as well? Stupid of me but no more calcium use I am too afraid to lose him. Could this be coccidia or cryptosporidiosis?

I am taking him to a vet tomorrow although I still want to hear some thoughts from other people who may know some information since I can't do anything about until tomorrow and am very concerned at the moment.
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You can never have only one snake!

And doesn't cryptosporidosis mean death to the snake? I really need opinions. This alterna is too precious to me so he's going to the vet. I just heard that this protozoan can infect other snakes as well.
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You can never have only one snake!

If you over fed him that may well be the problem. Good on you for taking him to the vet! It is often hard to even find a veterinarian who works with reptiles, but I would think any vet could at at least examine a fecal smear for pathogens.
Please let us know what the diagnosis is.
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

>>And doesn't cryptosporidosis mean death to the snake? I really need opinions. This alterna is too precious to me so he's going to the vet. I just heard that this protozoan can infect other snakes as well.
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>>You can never have only one snake!

As far as I know cryptosporidosis is almost always fatal. Snakes can hang around and even continue to eat but often throw up and continue to loose weight. Also mid body swelling may be apperent. It is highly contageous so quarantine him away from other snakes and it can also infect humans so be very careful and wash thoroughly! The Vet is your best option. Stools that smell really bad, are not good! Good luck with him and please let us know what happens. We can all learn from your experience.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

pnwhs.org/Articles/Your-Healthy-Herp-What-Crypto
This type of crypto, Cryptosporidium serpentis, only affects reptiles, not humans. But humans can spread it around by not being cautious about sanitation.
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

The booklet titled, "Understanding Reptile Parasites" by Roger J. Klingenberg D.V.M. says that it is sometimes found in Aids Patients, and also veterinary students and meat packers, pg63. However it goes on to say it only lasts about 30 days and is similar to Gastrointestinal symptoms. Maybe there are different strains at work here, I don't know? I did your link to be more in depth and very informative. I found the part that says, albino Pitiphus have a high likelyhood of carrying the disease. that's seems odd that a certain morph or mutation would have a higher risk?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I have always felt that breeding albinos is a wrong thing to do because in nature albinism is a genetic flaw. I know a pet snake in a tank is not going to have to fend for itself and need protective melanin to withstand UV or have proper camouflage to avoid predation. Still, though, the very fact that the animal is albino is a strike against it genetically. If the failure to have melanin is present, what other genetic weaknesses are present in that animal? Blindness, weak immune system, etc?

I have a pair of striped pituophis catenifer that are het for albinism, but I hope I don't get any albino babies. The odds are I will, though, in which case I will keep and care for the poor little dudes, but its not something I am hoping for.

Please all those who are fond of albinos, don't bite my head off! LOL!
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

At least you didn't say pinky pump, lol!

But I don't know albinos are found in the wild from time to time some even make it into adulthood.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

At least you didn't say pinky pump, lol!
Or hybrid! LOL!
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

Albinism is a mutation that is tested time and time again in any evolution cycle.......it rarely sustains and is almost always absorbed into the population.....but the genes are there in the wild but more prevalent in our herp rooms.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Heck, just because a snake is amelanistic doesn't mean it has any other additional problems. It just means it's chromatophores do not produce melanin. As long as they aren't subjected to bright sunlight and UV rays, the lack of melanin in itself is hardly any different that a weird pattern morph to me. Now there ARE certain genes that have undesireable "tandem traits" that go right along with them hand-in hand, but it certainly doesn't mean that all albinos have other genetic problems to worry about.

The "bug-eyed" gene in leucistic Texas Rats is a good example of a undesireable tandem trait that also involves that particular leucism gene in those particular snakes.

Typically inbreeding depression can sometimes lead to problems,and depending how long the line-breeding has gone on without new blood introduction, but albinism in itself is no big deal in most any snakes in my opinion at all. The only thing that "could" possibly lead to any additional problems is the constant inbreeding without out-crossing once in a while really.

The no-eyed amel Burmese, and one-eyed "cyclopse" Burmese come to mind here too, and that is likely due to all their in-breeding in the past with amel to amel breedings for long stretches at a time.

I have never seen anything different in any albino snake I have ever owned to be quite honest, and I have had and produced a pretty fair number of different types over the years.

Now if release back into nature was part of this equation, I would have to agree 100% that this would not be a good idea at ALL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"taking him to a vet tomorrow"
absolutely the best idea...
That said, it hints to me of maybe tainted food source, or water.
Vet hopefully knows his stuff and can help.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

I totally agree Mark!. That could very easily be the cause as I also stated in my below post.

And as we both mentioned, hopefully the vet knows the proper course of action too.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Yes, there is no need to use so much calcium any way, as they get plenty of everything they need from their rodent prey.

I would not just assume it is crypto right off the bat either, as it is MOST likely from too large a meal that it could not properly digest. DO NOT attempt to feed it more meals until it has been looked at, I strongly suspect it has some nasty intestinal bacteria from the putrid previous meals. I would imagine a two-dose regimen of Flagyl(metronidazole) could EASILY be all that is needed here. This will kill the bad protazoa/pathogens as WELL as the GOOD bacteria that is needed for proper digestion, so STOP offering it any food until the snake has been looked at and helped. Feeding at this point will only lead to more regurges and a DEFINITE downward spiral that could easily end up killing it. Offering food at this point is the WORST thing you could do right now until you takle the intestinal problem.

Hopefully the vet will know the proper course of action, but MANY vets don't know diddly squat about reptile medicine whatsoever. The snake should get a dose of of Flagyl at the rate of 50 mg./per kg. of body weight given orally, and another follow-up dose 10 to 14 days later. NO FOOD should be offered until a good week or so AFTER the last dose so the snake can replenish it's vital acids, electrolytes, enzymes and gut flora before being fed again. And when it IS FED again, they should be very small meals for a while to make certain they stay down and are digested properly.

After several very small meals, you could GRADUALLY increase the size back to normal, just make sure you never offer these gigantic meals again, that is of no benefit at all, and usually only makes it tough on the snake's system as you have already found out.

Sometimes snakes develop this from fouled water too, so who knows, but I would bet a dollar to a donut some Flagyl at the proper dosing will take care of this. Flagyl is very reptile friendly too!

good luck!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Great post! Thanks!
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

I went back and read the original post by the author TonyT89:
I always do give him one large pinkie with calcium once a month but overdid it with 2 this month.
This doesn't seem like a very large meal for a yearling alterna. Also, feeding him one large pinky only once a month seems not very much food for such an animal. But I am a newbie and also don't have any alternas, so I could be wrong. I am thinking maybe TonyT89's house has gotten colder this fall and he needs to turn up the heat in the cage.
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

>>I went back and read the original post by the author TonyT89:
>> I always do give him one large pinkie with calcium once a month but overdid it with 2 this month.
>>This doesn't seem like a very large meal for a yearling alterna. Also, feeding him one large pinky only once a month seems not very much food for such an animal. But I am a newbie and also don't have any alternas, so I could be wrong. I am thinking maybe TonyT89's house has gotten colder this fall and he needs to turn up the heat in the cage.

Nope...you are right Bob....
Alterna will eat just like any other kingsnake.....
The main thing to do is get the alterna off pinkies and on to prey that has bones and fur......They have plenty of calcium.....No need to calcium dust rodents.......Although D3 supplement IS being widely used with Alterna now a days.
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com