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As much as I love to see a solid, jet black pinesnake.....
I really dig the two youngsters I just picked up.

I've been looking for Black Pines with some pattern on them for a very long time. These two are just amazing to me. Just what I was looking for.

They remind me of Miami County axanthic bulls - but much darker.

To the best of my knowledge these are pure Black Pines.

Thanks for looking.

byron.d

As a matter of fact they don't appear to be Black Pines at all, they look like Northerns. Did you pin the seller down for locality data?

Bart Bruno

I know the parents are heavily patterned in the lower third of their bodies and have black heads and necks...

Sort of like the Escambia County Pines but with more contrast.

What about them looks Northern to you?

byron.d

Everything.

You're a huge help.

byron.d

Maybe you should learn about the animals in question BEFORE you buy, instead of getting huffy on line when someone tells you the truth! Bottom line is this; if you don't have locale,all you have are pretty animals, THAT'S IT! I've seen a lot of baby Black Pines, hatched many myself, and NONE ever looked like baby Northerns the way those animals do, and these were all animals with locale from throughout their limited range! You need to see a number of both subs; if you're not suspicious of those animals you know little about Pine Snakes and need to spend more time learning about these animals. With so many less-than-honorable people infecting the hobby today there's a good chance that those are intergrade/hybrids.

Bart Bruno
And by the way, my original answer was both honest and precise, perhaps one day you'll see that!

Your answer was vague and shallow. You started with 'they dont look pure' and when I asked you about that you toss out a weak and vague 'everything'. Sure, 'everything' can cover it....... How about something specific - something helpful?? How about detailing what does or doesnt look pure about them??

The irony here is that I never made any statement about their purity. I said 'to the best of my knowledge' and never stood on a soap-box about it. Could they be integrates? Sure? Could they be pure...? Sure they can.
In fact Bart, if I saw these on a table at a show I would wonder what the hell I was looking at. I got enough background on them to satisfy myself, and really, that's all that matters. I did not and will not mis-represent these snakes.

I'm no authority on Pines - or any snakes for that matterm but what I do know about these is that they came from Black Pine looking parents and aside from their color and pattern, they look like BP's to me.

I'll ask you again to point out what specifically doesnt look legit about these - aside from the color and amount of pattern.....

Thanks,

byron.d

you should just send these snakes to me to put an end to all of the confusion. I have kept escambia co pines in the past. While your animals look different from the escambia pines, they do look cool as hell, so just shoot me an email and I will give you my shipping info and you can just send them over.

Nice looking snakes man!

For the record, the only legal locality black pines I have ever seen or heard of were Escambia Co pines (lodingi x mugitus)...I would love to hear of where all of those other locality lodingi are.

Michael

If you ever had baby northerns that looked liked that, I wouldn't buy them. Your arrogant response is no suprise here, and to say that everything about those pines resemble northerns???

I have to agree with BBBruno here. They don't look like Black Pines at all. Juvenile Black Pines are much, much darker than that, and this also goes for the Escambia County Pines. On the other side, they don't look much like Northerns either. My guess would be that they are a mix, and that Black Pines probably are part of that mix. Just my 2 cents, no offence to anyone.
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I'm Dutch. Somebody shoot me.

Great looking animals but I would guess hybrid (for all I know). But in any case, I don't thing any reasonable person would say that "everything" about them looks northern ...certainly not the saddles on the posterior half which are much more like the banding you see on young blacks.

Regardless of species/origin etc. those are some fascinating, great looking pits you've posted but I'd be very careful about touting them as pure unless you are absolutely certain, given that all (the yellow np, hypo np and these "blacks" are all stretching the imagination for what would be natural.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com