Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My hypo Northern. I've posted him up here once before -

I love this guy.

byron.d

Very nice, you dont see to many Hypos around.

Jason

I love this animal. The bloodline he's from kicks out some pretty wild stuff. The hypos are very few and far between though.

byron.d

What I find most attractive about northerns is the high contrast between the black and white. Northerns are an example of how morphs can be interesting and unique but can never, IMHO, improve on the looks of the original.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM

" Northerns are an example of how morphs can be interesting and unique but can never, IMHO, improve on the looks of the original."

Exactly! I highly agree! I love both normals and morphs, but always favor the beauty of normals more, for my personal taste.
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Genesis 1:1

It's hard to argue the beauty of a normal Northern. I love that stark contrast between black and white.

I put together a small group of morphs because of their uniqueness. As cool as they are to me, a big normal Pine is hard to beat.

byron.d

Wow! Very good looking snake, Byron.

reako45

Gotta love that one. WOW! Don't know my genetics too well but I just had an accidental hookup with my female cinnamon northern and my luecy southern ...seems some of them might wind up looking like that.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

I'd love to see a photo of your cinnamon northern if you have one.

Is it female by chance......?

Thanks -

byron.d

She's one of my most favorite ...a real puppy dog with a special kind of beauty. I like her look as much as a high B&W.

This pic is a little on the warm side though...

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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

AWESOME! More hybrids that our hobby will have to deal with! Congrats!!!!!!!! Thanks for being so responsible!

.....( rolls eyes )
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Genesis 1:1

Easy to judge the circumstances if you don't know the details I guess. In this case it was a result of my snakes enjoying freedoms that aren't available to most captives and just like in real life, stuff happens. I really didn't think she'd be receptive in fall with no brumation either.

Anyway, I appreciate your concerns as I have them myself. BUT, please be assurred that IF I even let the egss hatch, I will not misrepresent the offspring (which will probably speak for themselves anyway.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

It is very easy to judge the scenario. There was no responsibility acted upon. " I really didn't think " and " stuff happens " says it all. I state this matter-of-factly, and nothing more, so please, do not take this personal.

No matter how you respresent the offspring, somewhere, someone down the road will be screwed in one way or another. That is the ugly reality of hybridization.

On a lighter note, you do have some gorgeous northerns!
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Genesis 1:1

Yeah, no matter how most crosses like that are initially represented by a breeder when they first initially sell them, the fact that they get sold into the hobby mainstream simply guarantee's their intergraded/crossed genetics will certainly later be introduced into pure bloodlines of many a collection throughout the country, be it on purpose or by mistake.

No matter what, eventually down the line all snakes get sold as what they tend to best represent at any given time, it is really as simple as that.

This is INDEED how the "true" dynamics of this hobby works....period!, and to even think for one moment that all those offspring will ever continue to ONLY be bred to other crosses of the very same composite and of course continued to be represented as such is simply quite impossible!, it just won't happen.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

The "cinnamon" female in question, albeit most probably pure np is certainly not assuredly so...and sadly that is true for much of what we see on this forum and at shows. In fact, given the ongoing frickass and skepticism regarding captive bred LAP, the cat has been out of the bag for a long time. This is a reality that is indeed saddening but never the less a reality.

As I indicated, in respect for the sanctity of line/locality purity, I am strongly considering destroying any eggs that are produced. And, I am NOT a commercial breeder and so have no intent on creating monsters for profit, so that influence is out of the picture.

It is interesting though, that you've selected this particular case to offer pointed comment when this and most/all forums here are rife with 'binos, mutants, hybrids etc. My personal aesthetics certainly favor an intra species hybrid over most of those freaks as in many cases those hybrids occur in nature anyway along intergrade zones. In fact, as we all know, the concept of subspecies is ill-defined at best and entirely debatable.

IMPORTANT: I would never permit viability of outbreeding of any known pure locality animals though and in this case, the animals involved are anything but.

As I've been keeping snakes now I am learning how rewarding it is to allow them some freedom to explore and "enjoy" some life "outside the box", and just as with human kind, that entails some risk. If you are sure that your animals are just as content perpetually locked up in a little tub, then you probably wouldn't understand this. I though, am not so convinced and prefer to offer my animals the benefit of the doubt when/if possible. That is a decision I make consciously and in responsibility to myself, my animals and my personal values.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

If you want to go ahead and say things like, " the concept of subspecies is ill-defined at best and entirely debatable " to make yourself feel better about what you let happen, have at it. Be my guest.

It is sad to see so much biological perversion take place in our hobby, and those who loves pits have to, as well, be extra careful on what and who can be trusted to get pure specimens from. When you let things like this happen, you just made it harder on everyone else who actually cares about purity.

No need to even run this more into the ground, just stating my thoughts.
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Genesis 1:1

Just to be clear, am do NOT "feel good about what happened" ...and it concerns me for the same reasons it concerns you, but maybe not quite as much.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com