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I picked this female up at a show about 6 months ago as a "unsexed, unknown hets, unknown breed" from a ball python guy who recieved them as a partial trade it has pretty brigght colors, and growing fast what do I have??

I know its a boa but im not a boa guy s it just normal? columbian red tail?

>>I know its a boa but im not a boa guy s it just normal? columbian red tail?

Unfortunately, since you bought it as an unknown, that's what it is. A label/description beyond "a boa" can't ever be applied confidently. Such is the nature of boas. Calling it a Colombian wouldn't be accurate as we can't know where it, or its ancestors originated. Calling it a "red tail" would also not be correct as that too, implies a knowledge of the provenance of the animal.

It's a really pretty boa (and I don't say that unless it's true as there are some butt-ugly boas out there), and there's no shame in not having a label beyond that

Great pick up and I hope you enjoy your pet boa!
jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

looks like a normal colombian to me - definitely doesn't appear to be any type of morph.. although it could be a possible het for a variety of things since a lot of breeders sell their possible hets as normals.
to my eyes - it looks much more similar to a "colombian" BCI than to any BCC, BCO, BCA, or any central american or insular BCI.
although it seems I've heard that some BCC can be similar in appearance to colombian BCI. is this correct? is there a Colombian BCC?

my termology may be way off. excuse me if it is.

I should probably just stick to saying that to me it looks like a colombian BCI.

it definitely isn't a zebra.

I'm not quite as picky as Jb " " when it comes to a Boa identification and especially one
that has obvious Colombian ancestral decent.

Its a common regular Boa known as a Colombian type Boa in the trade.
You cannot confidently apply Locale origin or even guarantee
its of pure Colombian descent.

Although the largest portion of its descendants were most likely
almost certainly Colombian Boas.

Its a very nice Colombian type Boa although I wish you would
post a bigger picture !

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

I won't bother with the game of asking "what's the origin of this animal"... I'll just tell you. It's 50% Colombian, and 50% Suriname.

Just because something LOOKS like "the largest portion of its descendants were most likely almost certainly" from a certain country of origin, doesn't mean SQUAT

I think calling the boa originally posted a "Colombian" is BEYOND misleading. "Colombian type" means nothing. If "Colombian type" meant something, then all boas from Colombia would NECESSARILY HAVE TO LOOK THE SAME, and they don't. It's a boa. That's it. Any attempts to further categorize it expose a lack of experience, IMO.

But hey... that's just my opinion with some pretty overwhelming picture evidence (above) to back it up.

Checkmate bro! lol

Love ya Lar!
jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

I agree that one looks like a Surinam Bcc.

Just one breeding between a Colombian and a Surinam produced that ?

This Colombian also has has some pretty nice Peaks

I'm certain that most Boas that look Colombian are Colombian !

Usually a Zebra is a Zebra !!

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

By the way Jb , if you are going to show me a picture and tell me what you told me.

I'm gonna have to see a picture of both parents !

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

"I'm certain that most Boas that look Colombian are Colombian !"

You know what I say to that...? Would you put your money on it? I'm talking betting. If there was a person in the room who TRULY knew the origin of a particular animal, would you put down money that your guess was as accurate as what they know? If not, it's speculation and should be left alone.

By the way, what does a Colombian look like? You posted one with peaks. The one in the original thread had none. I've seen all kinds of pattern aberrancies and color variations in the Colombian boas (that are NOT morphs, and plenty that are). Perhaps MORE importantly, how can you possibly know if there's not a Panamanian in the woodpile? Or a Mexican? Or a Suriname? Or anything else if there's no record? The very simple fact is... YOU CAN'T. And without proof or knowledge, it's an ASSUMPTION.

Also, your statement was EXACTLY the kind of thing I hoped to discourage by posting that picture of a boa that LOOKS like a Suriname, but isn't (completely).

That animal was born several years ago from a Kahl albino X Suriname. I don't have any more info than that.

I just fail to see the advantage of assuming anything, when it comes to labeling boas with a country of origin.

It's almost as though people feel "attacked" or that their animals are somehow devalued if they don't have the proper "label" for them. So they'd rather make something up, than not know something.

If I felt like getting banned from this site, I could type out a LOOOOOONG list of people who just make stuff up when it comes to boa provenance. Totally... out of thin air. On a whim. And you know what, NO ONE CALLS THEM OUT! So, their whim gets perpetuated as "fact". Then, future generations of buyers get the wrong info. The worst part comes when they post their animals and then get totally blindsided by someone who ACTUALLY knows the provenance of their animal - which they would have known if they had just done their homework and "trust, but verify" the information that was provided (or not) by the seller. But too many people just "buy blindly" without asking a single question...

But I don't feel like getting banned so I'll keep my mouth shut.

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

Its simple if it looks like a Zebra it is a Zebra.

Did you get the pictures of the parents by any chance ?

Quote:

>>>Its a common regular Boa known as a Colombian type Boa in the trade.

You cannot confidently apply Locale origin or even guarantee
its of pure Colombian descent.

Although the largest portion of its descendants were most likely
almost certainly Colombian Boas.

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

THat only works if you actually know what a "real" zebra looks like..... and not what a bunch of random importers say they should look like.......

You can only really compare... when you go and see the "real" zebras...
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Marc Duhon
Lafayette, Louisiana
SURINAMBOAS.COM
kaiyudsai@SURINAMBOAS.COM

A "zebra" is NOT a "zebra" when it LOOKS like a Suriname, but it's not!

That was the ENTIRE point of that picture. To illustrate the fact that just because something may appear to be true, only carefully gathering facts will reveal whether it is ACTUALLY true, or not.

I would venture a guess that the VAST majority of folks familiar with boas would call the above animal a Suriname (or at least a shield BCC), because that's what it LOOKS like. But it's not.

So, just because a boa may LOOK like what we believe a particular boa should look like, doesn't mean that's what it is. And there is absolutely NO refuting that - lineage information is an absolute necessity if you want to claim provenance of a boa. To say otherwise is akin to an ostrich sticking its head in the sand and pretending the facts don't exist. (and now you know the meaning of my avatar)

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

How do you know its not a Surinam.

Was the mother a Colombian boa ?

Was the father the Colombian boa ?

If the Mom was a Suri for all you know it was a Partho Clone litter.

I still haven't seen pictures of Mom and dad.

Plus you're showing me an exception, not the rule.

I'm talking about Colombian in general looks like "X".

In fact here are Colombian Boas definite Colombian Boas !

When i brought Pee-Wee Home from (I know who) house.

NOW....

McLovin from (I know who) house...

NOW....

I have many more Images of Colombian Boas that have never been
touched by Hypo Blood or other blood in my collection.
not many but a few !

Addrianna

here with my CBLT Albino which also is Colombian no Hypo Blood has touched his genetics

Nobody is going to go out and make the claim they have a Locale
pedigree Colombian Boa after asking what they have on here !

I made it completely clear they cannot do that in my post

Pet trade Colombian Boas are never considered Locale specific !

Nobody cares about that, these people want simple idea of what
kind of Boa they probably have.

I believe it's a dis service to give them the speal about "you have a common Boa, you'll never know what kind"

That still doesn't answer any question, they want a simple idea like . . . . . . . .

Colombian

Central American

Bco

Bcc

etc . . . . . .

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

>>I believe it's a dis service to give them the speal about "you have a common Boa, you'll never know what kind"
>>
>>That still doesn't answer any question, they want a simple idea like . . . . . . . .
>>
>>Colombian
>>
>>Central American
>>
>>Bco
>>
>>Bcc
>>
>>etc . . . . . .
>>

Let me ask this, what difference does it make?
jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

The difference is as with any person they want a visual concept and label of what their Boa is.

Once they know what they most likely have.

It may spark their interest in more things Boa !

They might actually go out and do some real research

I can only hope that 1 out of 50 people might care enough to do some
real research and become bona fide Boa fanatics like we are !

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

BUt giving the the speal"you have a common boa and will never know what kind" is the truth ... I know that's not what people want to hear...... but it's the most truth you're going to get...
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Marc Duhon
Lafayette, Louisiana
SURINAMBOAS.COM
kaiyudsai@SURINAMBOAS.COM

>>How do you know its not a Surinam.
>>
>>Was the mother a Colombian boa ?
>>
>>Was the father the Colombian boa ?

As he mentioned in another post it was albino x suri. 

>>
>>If the Mom was a Suri for all you know it was a Partho Clone litter.

The likelyness of it being a partho litter baby is ridiculous. It's amazing to me how this term is tossed around so loosely. It is extremely rare and people jump to this conclusion. Sometimes people could have mis-sexed the litter or had a smaller litter and you have a one out of 2 shot of it being a male or female so out of a few babies it's possible to have all one or the other. 
>>
>>I still haven't seen pictures of Mom and dad.

As he mentioned in the other post he had information on the parents nothing further. 
>>
>>Plus you're showing me an exception, not the rule.

There are no rules with boas. It's a common boa. As you mentioned that's the basic term excepted in the pet trade. If it comes from a specific region that's when it gets an addition title 

>>Nobody is going to go out and make the claim they have a Locale
>> pedigree Colombian Boa after asking what they have on here !

If someone is asking on here what type of boa they have they either generally have a common boa or some type of likely intergrade as others have mentioned. Yes their are columbian letica out their and the people that have them know what they are and paid for that specific title. 

>>Pet trade Colombian Boas are never considered Locale specific !

You said it. 
>>
>>Nobody cares about that, these people want simple idea of what
>> kind of Boa they probably have.

Clearly you do and they have their answer a common boa. 

>>
>>I believe it's a dis service to give them the speal about "you have a common Boa, you'll never know what kind"

Not really it's a beautiful animal who would complain about having a beautiful boa. Nobody I know. 
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Brandon Nixon

What is the Definition of a Common Boa ?

This is why I do not Like the Term Common Boa as Described by Dave and Tracy barker.

( definition in next post )

It can be any of a number of Boas from Mexico all the way down to Colombia.

If it doesn't look much like a Mexican Boa but more like a Colombian Boa.

This is what I will tell any person who asks the question.

Other wise they do not know anything more than its a boa.

They think maybe its a Mexican Boa, no maybe its a Nicarguan boa, no maybe its a Colombian Boa.

They want an idea of what that Boa and its similar counter parts
look like and where do they come from.

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

Common Boa Constrictors,
Dave and Tracy Barker
Scientific name: Boa constrictor imperator
Other common names: This is the boa subspecies most often encountered in captivity. There are in use a variety of different names all referring to this subspecies, including simply "boa constrictor." This form of boa may be referred to as the pet store boa constrictor, redtail boa, Colombian redtail boa, pet store redtail, and red-tailed boa constrictor.
In fact many common boa constrictors do have a red tail, distinctly different in color than the rest of the body; however, the common name of "red-tailed boa" is also commonly applied to the South American boa constrictor, Boa constrictor constrictor, which typically has an even redder tail.
The common boa has an extensive distribution in nature and many geographic names have come to be used to refer to this subspecies, including; Mexican boa, Sonoran desert boa, Yucatan boa, Central American boa, El Salvador boa, Nicaraguan boa, Panamanian boa, Honduran boa, Hog Island boa, Corn Island boa, and Colombian boa.
Size: This is a relatively slender elongate snake. The head is very distinct from the neck; the body is laterally compressed; the tail is long and strongly prehensile. Large specimens attain considerable bulk and may weigh 40-50 pounds. Adult specimens in most U.S. collections average about 4½-8 feet in total length. The maximum size of this form purportedly approaches 12 feet in total length, but the biggest we have seen were 9-10 feet long.
Distribution: This widespread boa constrictor subspecies occurs on the west coast of Mexico as far north as Hermosillo, Sonora, and on the east coast north to southern Tamaulipas. The species is widespread through the lower elevations of tropical southern Mexico. It is widespread and common in every country in Central America.

more
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

Common Boa Constrictors,

Dave and Tracy Barker

Scientific name: Boa constrictor imperator

Continued---

From eastern Panama the range extends north into Colombia to the Sierra de Santa Marta, and south through coastal Colombia into Ecuador, south as far as Guayaquil. There at the southern extreme of the range, it intergrades with the Tumbes boa, Boa constrictor longicauda and Peruvian coastal boa, Boa constrictor ortonii.
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

According to the Barker's description of "Common Boa" it fits perfectly with the boa that started this thread.... There is no data associated with it.... so you can only classify it in the broadest sense... To further classify it would be a stab in the dark at best.....

Although it may seem quite innocent to say this boa is a Colombian boa... because it looks like a Colombian boa.... there is a cumulative effect of this sort of thing happening over and over again..... We still battle this with other locality boas... It just adds to the general MISinformation out there...

That boa is a "common boa" or a Boa constrictor imperator of unknown origin..... very simple... it's a very nice boa... No need to stamp extra names on it...
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Marc Duhon
Lafayette, Louisiana
SURINAMBOAS.COM
kaiyudsai@SURINAMBOAS.COM

if this boa is 50% BCI

This one could just as easily be 50% BCC

I think even calling it a common boa which if we're using the Barkers definition is 100% BCI, is potentially incorrect. If you have the potential to be wrong, you should adjust so that you're right.

What's 100% correct without a doubt is that the animal in question is a boa. No one can question it. And no one can prove anything more specific.

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

>>if this boa is 50% BCI
>>
>>
>>This one could just as easily be 50% BCC
>>
>>
>>I think even calling it a common boa which if we're using the Barkers definition is 100% BCI, is potentially incorrect. If you have the potential to be wrong, you should adjust so that you're right.
>>
>>What's 100% correct without a doubt is that the animal in question is a boa. No one can question it. And no one can prove anything more specific.
>>
>>jb
>>-----
>>What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously
>>
>>Jonathan Brady
>>DeviantConstrictors.com
>>Deviant Constrictors picturetrail
>>
-----
Brandon Nixon

I paid for my collection, and my boas?

jb
-----
What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

Believe me I understand the point you guys are making.

I don't believe you understand the point I am making !

Posssibly you just don't want to understand the point I am making !

As I've said nobody who asks that questions " What kind of Boa do I have "

Is looking for a complete description and a tag or provenance !

To give them the answer " its a Boa " would be looked on by
these people as unhelpful, rude and a snobbish answer!

To call it a Common Boa which appears to be another title for Bci. This is compared to calling it
any Boa that ranges from Mexico all the way down to and including Colombia or at least Northern Colombia !

That is obviously never the case , these Boas always have a phenotype that can be generally associated with
a general region.

In alomst every case you can tell if a Boa is associated with
the region of Central America or Colombia.

That's all these people are looking for, a general idea of a
general region there Boa can be associated with.

They're not going to run off and claim they have a pure "X X Boa"

Because in every case its also made clear they cannot do that, that it is complete speculation on my or
other posters answer.

If you will not understand that point

. . . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

I had a point by point reply typed, and my computer shut down for an update as I was proofreading the thing!!! ARRRGGGHHH!!!!!!

Here's an abbreviated version...

>>Believe me I understand the point you guys are making.
>>
>>I don't believe you understand the point I am making !
>>
>>Posssibly you just don't want to understand the point I am making !

We understand Lar, we just disagree with what you're saying regarding several points.

>>As I've said nobody who asks that questions " What kind of Boa do I have "
>>
>>Is looking for a complete description and a tag or provenance !
>>
>>To give them the answer " its a Boa " would be looked on by
>>these people as unhelpful, rude and a snobbish answer!

"Nobody"? That's an absolute term. You can't possibly know that. However, I actually agree (mostly) with you. But here's why. People who are asking for ID's are GENERALLY not educated enough about boas to even understand what "provenance" means in regards to boas. They also aren't familiar with the phenotypical variation within a subspecies, much less a country of origin. Heck, they probably don't even know what locality means. And that's not an insult to them. I was "that guy" at one time too, just like you. It's just the truth.

>>To call it a Common Boa which appears to be another title for Bci. This is compared to calling it
>>any Boa that ranges from Mexico all the way down to and including Colombia or at least Northern Colombia !

Or, it could also apply to a boa that's a Mexican BCI X Colombian BCI - which could look like an animal from either country of origin. But how would you know that?

>>That is obviously never the case , these Boas always have a phenotype that can be generally associated with
>> a general region.

"obviously never"? "Always"? More "absolute" terms, Lar. No bueno man.

Allow me to illustrate via an example: The following boas have been produced and SOME of the offspring resemble what some folks would call "Colombians".

-Brazilian X Colombian/Panamanian hypo
-Argentine X Colombian/Panamanian hypo

So, lets say that one animal that APPEARS like a Colombian is purchased from each litter (a sexual pair), and they're bred to one another. They produce babies and there is almost certainly an animal that LOOKS Colombian. How do you know that on any given "ID please" post, THAT animal (or one just like it) isn't staring you in the face? You CAN'T BE SURE it's not!

That animal would be from ALL OVER South America with a dab of Central American in it, and it also consists of 3 different subspecies of boa.

Now, if that person gets two replies to their "ID please" post:
1) It looks like a Colombian to me

(not every person who answers "ID please" posts on the various forums like this, qualifies them like you do)

2) I'm sorry, but there's no way to identify a boa based on looks, if you don't have the info from the breeder, it's just "a boa". Enjoy your new pet!

Which person is being more honest? Which is being a better representative of the integrity of the hobby? Which one actually gave the OP the TRUTH about their boa? An actual certainty? #2 gets my vote.

Here's the problem if #2 isn't provided. It's ALLLLLL #1 type of posts. Then, new people to the hobby see this as the norm, and they start throwing in their .02 on a regular basis. Then more people do it. And more, and more, and more. Eventually, it becomes common place to pretty much throw out random answers to "ID please" types of posts and the entire hobby is based on the superfluous whims of people with a "mob mentality" who have NO IDEA what they're talking about. Which is actually fine... IF we all stop selling animals by tagging them with a country of origin. But, I'm sure that without checking the classifieds, you realize that ain't gonna happen.

>>In alomst every case you can tell if a Boa is associated with
>> the region of Central America or Colombia.

I would agree with this for the most part, if ALL animals were WC or farmed. But they're not.

>>That's all these people are looking for, a general idea of a
>>general region there Boa can be associated with.

Says who? How do you know? You can't.

>>They're not going to run off and claim they have a pure "X X Boa"

Says who? How do you know? You can't. There have been claims of pet shop boas being "pure Colombian" by prominent members of our hobby. So why wouldn't some random new guy do it too?

>>Because in every case its also made clear they cannot do that, that it is complete speculation on my or
>>other posters answer.

"Every"? Lar.. the absolute terms are killin' me bro! lol

So again I say: Says who? How do you know? You can't.

My whole point is that people deserve the truth. The truth is accurate, and can't be refuted or questioned. I give people the truth.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Definition of TRUTH
1
a archaic : fidelity, constancy b : sincerity in action, character, and utterance
2
a (1) : the state of being the case : fact (2) : the body of real things, events, and facts : actuality (3) often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality b : a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true c : the body of true statements and propositions
3
a : the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality b chiefly British : true 2 c : fidelity to an original or to a standard
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The truth is, if you don't know the provenance or history of your boa, no one else can provide it simply by looking at your boa - due to the multitude of generations of captive boa breeding. Therefore, the only accurate and truthful representation of your boa is: "a boa".

>>If you will not understand that point

Again, Lar, I understand completely your point. I just disagree.

For anyone who's actually still reading this. Larry and I have known each other for quite some time via the forums. He and I would consider each other friends. We sometimes have frank discussions with each other and we disagree. Neither of us is ever hurt or upset about the content of these discussions as we both respect each other, and the others' opinion. Other times we share the same opinion and back each other up. So there's definitely no hostility between Lar and I.

Heck, we're friends on facebook! Doesn't get any better than that! lol

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

>>> For anyone who's actually still reading this. Larry and I have known each other for quite some time via the forums. He and I would consider each other friends. We sometimes have frank discussions with each other and we disagree. Neither of us is ever hurt or upset about the content of these discussions as we both respect each other, and the others' opinion. Other times we share the same opinion and back each other up. So there's definitely no hostility between Lar and I.

There is no doubt about this , this is absolutely correct

I think we've beat this horse enough, it was enjoyable !

. . . Lar M
-----
Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

on Lar's side here.

Generally speaking, the layman doesn't care about what their boa could be... he cares about what it 'phenotypically' looks like.

Colombians have a distinct look.

Guyanese/Surinames have a distinct look.

Peruvians have a distinct look.

Some bloodlines have a distinct look.

Etc.

We can determine, with some degree of certainty, which locality fits the phenotype of a pictured or assessed boa. There's no reason to assume the layman would not want our opinion in that regard. I dont think its implied to be absolute, as no one knows that the entire genetic makeup of their boa is from a single locale alone. And I'm not sure it's a *disclaimer* that needs to be explained with every identification.
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-Ryan Homsey
TopNotchBoas.com Website

Very nicely thought out and well written response Ryan.

You sum it up quite nicely !

. . . . . . . . . . Thx Ryan

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

perhaps just as dangerous as assumptions.

Your post contained both.

>>There's no reason to assume the layman would not want our opinion in that regard.

Similarly, there's no reason to assume the layman wouldn't want an actual fact to go along with that conjecture.

>>I dont think its implied to be absolute, as no one knows that the entire genetic makeup of their boa is from a single locale alone.

I have several like this. Watch those absolute terms my friend

The simple fact is, people are deciding things for other people, rather than giving them the truth and letting them make up their own minds.

The only argument provided thus far is basically: "people would rather be told a lie, than hear the truth". Not buying it.

jb
-----
What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

perhaps just as dangerous as assumptions.

Your post contained both.

"Similarly, there's no reason to assume the layman wouldn't want an actual fact to go along with that conjecture."

Facts are great. Repeatedly stating the obvious is redundant. See below for explanation.

">>I dont think its implied to be absolute, as no one knows that the entire genetic makeup of their boa is from a single locale alone.

I have several like this. Watch those absolute terms my friend"

It's simply impossible for you to know the entire genetic makeup of any of your boas, because you weren't present for every ancestral pairing. It doesn't matter if you know where it was picked up, the possiblity exists that somewhere in the chain an outside animal was introduced into the gene pool.

To say with every i.d. - "Your boa looks exactly like the typical phenotype that comes out of specific location but it may not be entirely pure because at some point an outside animal could have been introduced to the gene-pool" - would be redundant. Wouldn't it be easier just to say "It looks like a Colombian."? Since the possibility of a 'corrupted' gene-pool exists in every boa?
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-Ryan Homsey
TopNotchBoas.com Website

How many times have you seen one of these "What kind of boa is this?" threads and you get several people chiming in saying it is xxlocale..... It's usually on some of the more novice forums... where people have a little bit of knowledge... but hardly the extensive experience some more seasoned collectors do.... They may base alot of their answers on various mis-information the is spewed all over the internet...So this just propagates this mess....

I think we really should be cautious before we stamp a name on anything.... and we should question others who rush to stamp a name on something.....
-----
Marc Duhon
Lafayette, Louisiana
SURINAMBOAS.COM
kaiyudsai@SURINAMBOAS.COM

Like it matters, but...Lar you're proving JB's point in a way. Yes, you can call a zebra a zebra. That is, after all, what it is. What you can't say is it's locality or subspecies without some valid information. So, in the most generic form, it's a zebra. With the same circumstances, you can call a boa a boa. Without more information, that's all it is. Plains zebra have a few subspecies, and then there are other types of zebra as well. I don't want to even go into the reply hinting at the zebra conspiracy we've all been subjected too. But, basically if it's white and black people will look, point, and say Zebra. If this "debate" is going any further can we also decide whether zebra are white with black stripes or black with white stripes? Wait, nevermind, I don't care! Although his stance is a little firm, JB's absolutey correct. If you don't KNOW, all you can do is assume.

I prefer "defined"! lmao!!

But seriously... I do actually prefer defined now that I think about it, lol. My thoughts are very defined on the issue. There's no gray area. Something either is, or isn't. An animal can't "maybe be a Colombian". Either you know it is, or you don't know it is. There's no maybe, no debating, no "what-if's". It's simple.

A MAJOR issue with "labels" is that I get the impression that people without concrete info somehow feel like their animals are worth less because of it. Either monetarily or intrinsically. Like they feel as though their animal is being looked down upon... They get defensive... It's weird! lol

So I think because of that, there's almost a desperation to assign a label. I dunno... maybe I'm wrong?

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

LOL, I just think people aren't used to being given the truth without it being sugar coated. I'm going to label it "unwavering"!

Here's an excerpt from an email I wrote to my future mother in law today on the topic of "sugar coating".

I do NOT sugar coat things as I believe that sugar coating is the best way to incite confusion and future arguments because things are withheld for the sake of “someone’s feelings”. I believe that a direct and straightforward conversation is the absolute BEST WAY to handle any discussion of serious importance. What I don’t do is; attack people. There’s a difference between attacking, provoking, being passive-aggressive, and just being honest.

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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

don't we have a variety of people using this forum? some infrequent visitors maybe just dabbling with reptile or boa curiosities and some who have obviously more experience and knowledge?

I think it would be advantageous for us as a group of hobbiests to try and be more inclusive and let a variety of OPINIONS be expressed here.

before you showed up to comment on my post. Took longer than normal.

Welcome back!
jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

Oh yes JB.. I am soooo stalking you.. I'm so flattered that you are responding back to me. thanks for welcoming me back..

but I have to break it to you - I never left. and i do post to other threads - but of course I'll let you think that I am mostly just here for your posts..

"and i do post to other threads"

Yeah, that's a nice touch you've added to your repertoire after the last time I called you out.

The first time I noticed you seemed to be tagging my posts, I clicked on "find all posts" and of your 7 posts, 8 were in response to me and were antagonizing.

Just sayin...
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

than green ants amazing colloction of boas. LOL

But don't worry, Tony's received MANY more compliments on another forum where a lot of boa guys hang out

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

This only had 6 separate responses , it was really only us three stooges or maybe idiots (Lar-Me, Jb and Marc )
going at it ha ha ha

Sometimes standing up for a point . . . .good, bad or irrelevant is fun !

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

LOL..... we need to come and argue on KS sometimes.... It's kinda like playing Mortal Combat.... you don't always want to battle in the dungeon.... change of scenery...
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Marc Duhon
Lafayette, Louisiana
SURINAMBOAS.COM
kaiyudsai@SURINAMBOAS.COM

Ha ha ha LMAO Marc absolutely it can be fun !!

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

I have been a member of the boa forum for several years - I'm thinking at least 7.
the search option you are referring to only shows my posts for the past few months. maybe this is a new feature since the recent changes to the forum??

and most of those are actually responding to the initial poster of the thread and not directly responding to you.

I would have to agree with JB..... in the past people always called "normal" boas Colombians.... and we see what kind of mess that has made when we actually have true Colombian boas with accurate provenance.... It would be better to just call it a "Common Boa" Im a firm believer that any speculation of provenance is counterproductive... It's fun to make guesses... but in the case where someone wants to know what their boa is... they will most probably take that guess and perpetuate it further
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Marc Duhon
Lafayette, Louisiana
SURINAMBOAS.COM
kaiyudsai@SURINAMBOAS.COM

I'm guessing you have some form of a Boa constrictor Imperator.

here's a decent and very brief general description of boa taxonomy and common names.. from this link:
http://www.anapsid.org/boa.html

"Natural History
The name "Red-Tail Boa" has commonly been used by pet stores and snake aficionados to distract the public's attention from the fact that their proper name is boa constrictor. Many people who do not know much about snakes are fearful of all "constrictors," especially large constrictors; Red-Tail Boa sounds much less threatening. In fact, not all boa constrictors are red-tailed. While many boas on the market are true red-tailed Boa constrictor constrictor imported from Brazil, with a few coming from very limited areas in Columbia, the Amazon, Guyana, and Surinam, most are actually B. c. imperator from Columbia, with a few coming in from Mexico, Hogg Island and countries throughout Central America. There are seven other subspecies of B. constrictor from South America which can sometimes be found in the retail and private pet trade."

have fun with the new boa!