Reptile & Amphibian Forums

OK, May 6th of this year i bought and paid for a 100% Het Piebald male. I did PayPal and all and then contacted the breeder on shipment. the breeder said that he was still needing to eat a few meals and shed. So the breeder told me to wait 30 days /-. So i did...

After a good 30 days pasted, i contacted the breeder about my Ball, it took like 3 or 4 days to get a response. The breeder said that if i was not able to wait, they could send the animal, but said it should still stay with them a little longer(1 more shed). Or they could give my money back. I said, "no" keep him till he is ready, a few more days or a week will not be no big deal.

Now its around the 20th of July(remember 6 May i was told 30 days /-) and my Ball was still not ready, will ship any day now. Finally, 27 August i got fed up and said i need my Ball, what's up...

I got my Ball 17 Sept i got my Ball and he weighed in at 157 grams. Seems small for a snake that was born before i paid for it on 6 May( which was told it was a good snake then). Anyways, i did not get any paperwork or anything with the snake. I e-mailed the breeder and was told that something was broken and they would e-mail it to me, that was on the 17th, today i e-mailed them and said they would e-mail me with it, its 10pm and nothing.

So i have no proof its a Het for Piebald or anything. What do you all think??? Thanks for the input... JAZ

Does it happen? Yes, rip offs happen all the time. Unscrupulous breeders will misrepresent their animals to artificially inflate the price, or will pull a "switch" between the sale and the delivery. (My wife used to raise cage birds, and we got to see all kinds of breeders and dealers)

Did it happen to you? I guess that remains to be seen. Does this breeder have a good reputation in the Herp community? Do you know of anyone else that has dealt with him? Other than a lack of paperwork, is there something about the appearance of the snake that would lead you to believe that you did not receive what you paid for?

Unfortunately, whenever we're dealing in mail-order (or internet order, or phone order, or whatever when we're not dealing directly face to face with the seller), we have to extend our "trust" much more than if we were at the seller in person, examining the "merchandise" as well as examining how it appears the business is run. Often, it works out well for us, but sometimes, our trust is betrayed and we get "burned".

Good luck... it sounds like you may need it.

More often than is should.

I myself, like to have the animal well-started before they are sold. 3 regular meals at minimum but prefer 10 or more. I don't even consider sheds. So this is not out of the ordinary.

3 or 4 days before getting a response is unacceptable unless you have a real good reason - death in the family, accident, etc. Too often breeders are more than willing to help you make the sale and too busy to help you after the sale.

157 grams isn't small. My last clutch was born at the end of July. They averaged around 60 grams. They now weigh just over 100 grams and they are all eating well - except the females which were slow starters.

Were you told you would get paperwork? Could be jumping the gun, but it does seem like this breeder, at the very least, has some undesirable characteristics. At this point, keep trying to get your paperwork. If you get nothing after several more tries, you might want to post your dealings on the B*oard of I*nquiry.

Even with paperwork, you have no proof. The only reliable proof (to yourself) is to prove him out.

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Jay A. Martin

i dont know if it is appropriate but who was the breeder or the company you were dealing with. maybe if people know who it was they may have better info on them.

Good thing you paid with PayPal. That's pretty much your only gun if this turns out to be a genuine ripoff. PayPal will have no problem freezing that guy's account if you file a complaint. Sh*t, they'll probably freeze yours too for sh*ts n giggles. And if you don't know, getting an account suspended by PayPal, especially if there's money in the account, is nothing nice.

I do thank everyone for the responses here and private e-mails i have gotten.

I did get an e-mail this morning from the breeder which says its a 100% Het Piebald and all and price and shipping number and so on. I hope an e-mail is good enough for me to use if its not what i bought. I was hoping for it to come in the box with the Ball, but the person said they had problems with the fax copier or something. Then was hoping it would be mailed when fixed so i have a signature. You would think a 37 cent stamp would not be too much to ask for after spending $1200 on the Ball.

I do not at this time want to name the party. I can back up all i said with copies of all the e-mails i sent and they did since 5 May, but not sure i want to smeer their name. I can tell you this, it is a top breeder that alot of people buy from. They have many Ball lines out. They are prducing cutting egde Balls and would come highly recommended by everyone.

So here is my [bleep] with this whole thing. I see alot about pricing and big breeders justifing higher prices because they are more knowledgeable, give better service, more trust worthy, and so on. Let me break down what i have come acrossed so far. I got 28 Balls since Dec. 2002 and one Albino female on the way from Jamie Quick(not here yet). I bought Balls from 3 big breeders and 19 smaller less know breeders. Out of the 19 sales from small breeders, i had 2 go kinda bad or got what i was not thinking i would get. Both of them made it up to me in the very near future and the overall outcome was then good.

Out of the 3 big breeders, 2 of them went bad and ONLY 1 went well and i was happy right from the begining. My 1st Ball, that i got from Ralph Davis back in Dec 2002. Got paperwork, feeding chart, shed chart everything. Hell, he even gave me a follow-up call like a week after i got my Ball to make sure all was going good. Now that is what i like, caring after the sale. Ralph can now justify his higher prices(to me). The other 2 went bad, the one i explained in the above post and one other. The other big breeder mix up was also fixed to my advantage. I bought and paid for a 1300 gram female which i was told it was mine. Then a day later i got an e-mail saying it was sold to someone else and i was out of luck. Without even getting too upset, i asked can you get me something close to the 1300 grams, the breeder did me right, he sent me 2 female weighing 700 grams and 1 weighing 900 grams. Now i got 2 females that are both closing in on 1300 grams each. So that big breeder made it up to me and i am happy.

But when you look at what has happened to me, 2 out of 3 big named breeders messed up(1 fixed it)(the other did not) and out of 19 small no named breeders, only 2 there.

So why pay the higher prices for that Ball that you can get from a new guy and save? Does a name make my Ball better? Does the Ball even care? The the person looking at my Ball care? No, bottom line, shop smart, don't think big name means good value, and buy what you like and not what name comes with it...

By-the-way, I would and will do more business with Ralph Davis. Prices might be higher than the small guy, but other then him, no one has called to ask how my snake way doing. Money well spent with him(for a big breeder). Thanks Ralph...

JAZ