Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi kingsnake people,
Yet another brumation/cooling question for you guys. As some of you guys might now, I posted a thread a week or so back being concerned about the early signs of cooling that my snakes were presenting, possibly due to the odd weather we have been having in CA-starting signs of cruising to cooler area in tank around late Sept/Early Oct.
Anyhow, I pulled heaters and let them gradually cool a bit and have placed them in the coolest part of my house, a hallway near a door to the backyard. For the past 5 years or so, cooling this way posed no problem and everything went swimmingly. However, the odd CA weather again is making the days and nights hotter then usual (for San Francisco at least) and I don't think it is cool enough. Daytime airtemp is around mid-high60s in the hallway/Nighttime airtemps outdoors is around 62F, possibly making the hallway airtemp around high50s? I usually have the snakes at about 55F give or take day and night during "normal" weather seasons.
Is this a huge problem? The pyros and annulata seem to be cooling and hiding with minimal activity, while the zonata is cruising still.
Any advice? What should I do?

So the zonata are cruising at 55 deg, huh? Yep. No surprise to me. 55 deg is not their magic number persay. Make sure they have some moisture (moist hide) or a place where they won't dehydrate. Z's are sensitive. Those cook-book care sheets don't fly necessarily. At least where you live the weather as a whole is better suited than many other places.
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Mark

Your annulata are different from zonata, so why would you expect the same behaviors? If you turned an annulata loose in zonata habitat, I doubt it would fair as well as it would in South Texas.

They are similar in that they seek optimum body temps that are probably very close, but there are minute specific differences in how they seek to achieve them, when, etc. And there are differences in the cool temps they seek when conserving energy. Not enormous differences but noticeable.

My advice is to treat zonata like zonata, and treat annulata like annulata to the best of your knowledge. You are trying a "one-size-fits-all" approach because that is what you were probably told is possible with a single rack. Not really true. I did the exact same thing way back when. It sucks for the snakes. And that is why I have no zonata anymore - I learned what worked but I cannot (or will not..) achieve it where I live now.
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Mark

Thanks for the info. I just never had a problem getting the temps for hibernating snakes down to around the 55F range before. Just too warm of weather right now.
I am very new to zonata, but have loved them for a long time. Since I am a Z novice, just was concerned about their behavior. I mean, I bet Z's do cruise at cooler temps, for they are a montane species, just not really used to that, you know? Funny enough, the pyros seem to be okay.
I don't think I was trying to really compare the annulata with the Z, just trying to explain my situation.
I guess my main question is will the snakes be okay with some elevated temps even though they are "suppose" to be cooling? I have read about the possibility of upper resp. infections due to cooling temps being too warm, and don't want that to happen.

I don't believe I have ever seen a king/milk with a respiratory infection, even rescued snakes that looked terrible. I have seen/had boas with them, but kings, no. The reason I say that is to highlight that kings are very capable of using and being exposed to a pretty wide range of temps.

I am 100% sure zonata will not get RI due to some elevated temps in Winter. Heck, you can even leave them heated all Winter if you provide a large very cool area as well for them to choose. I've done it, and they did just fine. Some of mine even ate in late December, went on the heat, then off. In other words, it wasn't all one way or the other, as long as the cool side is cool enough. But back to your question - it won't hurt.

Dehydration is the enemy with zonata. Fear it. A Cal king can sit in a dry cage for a year and probably be OK. Zonata cannot w/o a consequence. A water dish does little in that regard. Your job is to prevent them from dehydrating. Z's will still dehydrate in, say, a screen-top cage with a water bowl if the humidity is low enough. Don't worry about 55 or 60 degrees, worry about dehydration.

Pyros can take the heat. When I had pyros, they were easier than zonata in terms of the ambient temps I experienced in that area. My pyros would seek out basking areas and stay on them longer than the zonata on average. They also weathered heat waves much better.
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Mark

Just when I put my pyros under my computer station (the cold spot in the cabin) the California weather decided to have one last heat wave! So-there is a slight delay in the brumation. But next week it will be cold again, and likely stay that way. In the wild the weather is variable, anyway, and wild snakes deal with it just fine, so I am not worried.
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

Thanks again for the reply.
I actually keep all of my snakes in decent sized screen top glass tanks on a substrate of cypress mulch mixed with cocofiber/mulch with corkbark slabs for hides. During the "on" season when the snakes are pounding down food and active, I occasionally, around once every 2 weeks, will pour a bit of water and mix the bedding around, making it somewhat moist (not wet or damp). The Lampropeltis seem to love it and will burrow and looked happy. I figured I'd stop doing this during their "off" time, as there is no heat to dry out the tank.
So I guess I should place a small clump of moist long fibered sphagnum for the Z.

I like these Glad tubs, as you can stuff it full of moist moss and the snakes like the tight spot. If you just put a loose clump they will drag it around and it will dry out faster.
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

Yeah, I'll use a tupperware container.
Great pic by the way, you seriously have an amazing collection of pyros!

Great pic by the way, you seriously have an amazing collection of pyros!
Thanks! They are my special babies!
I'd love to see some photos of your zonatas!
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

I have a real small collection of Lampropletis, with only one zonata multicincta. My other snakes include two pyros and annulata.