Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, out of my 5 rainbows, I've finally gotten a hatchling that doesn't want to eat f/t. Stupid snake. It's not a huge deal -- yet -- I'm just annoyed at her.

But this makes me wonder -- how frequent is it for hatchling rainbows to insist on live? And when they do, is there some sort of average time frame for them to convert? I want this silly girl to get the idea RIGHT NOW!
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

I don;'t have a huge number of years of experience with F/T (I raise most of my own feeders) and the experience I do have is with sub 1 year old babies.

I did find last year that many would readily take F/T. I also found that many would not take them unless they were nice and toasty. There were also several that would only take them sometimes and yes, a few (~5 - 10 %)that simply refused them every time. Was not a huge deal for me since I was supplementing my live with F/T so I fed F/T first, then gave the DNF's a live hopper and most of the time they ate.

I have not gone through the effort to convert any stubborn ones so can't help there.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I have cheese to go with my whine, too.

I went through FOUR MONTHS of trying to get a reluctant hondo hatchling to switch to f/t this spring, and I'm just not looking forward to that again!

She'll eat live just fine, without hesitation. She simply wants her meals "on the hoof". So I'll start giving her a small live plus a small f/t at the same feeding, and see what happens!
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

One interim step is to go with fresh killed. Get her to accept food that does not move or exhale. Of course try her first on the F/K and if she won't take it you can still give it to another hatchling.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

>>One interim step is to go with fresh killed. Get her to accept food that does not move or exhale. Of course try her first on the F/K and if she won't take it you can still give it to another hatchling.

Yeah....except that I'm too much of a softy....

I killed plenty of rodents for both rodent food and research in my younger days, and I still euth animals whenever medically indicated -- but at this stage of my life, I'm not willing to distress myself that much just because this little stinker wants to be difficult. Yes, it's not terribly logical -- but people aren't always logical!
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

LOL, guess I'm not much of a softy when it comes to rodents, I whack rodents and feed them to snakes several days every week.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

>>I've gone through that struggle, and just helped someone else with a relucant feeder, too.
>>
>>Just to frame my answer, though: What did she eat before you got her? Mice or rats? Live or frssh killed? When did she last eat, and when was she last offered?

Hey there Cliff --

Yeah, I spent four months converting a picky hondo hatchling this spring. Funfunfun!

She was eating live pinky rats before I got her. She accepts live pinky and fuzzy mice for me with no hesitation. She just prefers her food to have a heartbeat! I've been feeding roughly once a week, and her last feeding (two small fuzzy live mice) was Tuesday night. I'm going to start offering a small live plus a small f/t at the same time, and see if I can convince her that they are still mice even when they're dead!
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

I know I mentioned it before and I'm sure you caught it - make sure the F/T is nice and warm, almost hot!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

>>I know I mentioned it before and I'm sure you caught it - make sure the F/T is nice and warm, almost hot!

Yeah, I'll try to be careful about this too. Thanks for mentioning it again!
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

let a small live mouse run around in a small clear deli cup with air holes Place the deli cup in the cage with the snake. See if that get's the snake actively trying to get at the food. Then dangle the F/T prey item.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

>>let a small live mouse run around in a small clear deli cup with air holes Place the deli cup in the cage with the snake. See if that get's the snake actively trying to get at the food. Then dangle the F/T prey item.

Oh, I like this one too. Thanks for the ideas!
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Ohh, I like your ambush and live-mouse-scenting ideas.

I am an old hand at tease feeding and the "zombie mouse dance", but she doesn't seem to like it. I think she's still too nervous. And I always feed at night anyway -- in fact, I leave food in over night so they can eat in peace. But I've never tried the last two ideas. Thanks!

Here's a pic of the annoying creature in question. See how she's hiding her head in shame? She's just a tyke -- prb, born 8/14.

>>Finally, let her “ambush” her meal. For some reason, this elicits a more forcible response. For example, set the prey up just around the side of the hide or water bowl, and let her sense and then move to attack it.
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>>If this still does not work, let a small live mouse run around in a small opaque container (not much bigger than the snake) for 15 minutes. Meanwhile, reheat the FT prey item. Remove the live mouse and place the prey item in the now mouse-scented container. Place your snake in said container and leave her there, with the prey item, for an hour or so -- or even overnight; just place it in the main cage -- and see if that works.
>>
>>Anyone else, feel free to pile on.
>>
>>Good luck,
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>>Cliff Earle
>>3.2.0 BRB 2007s
>>1.4.0 BRB 2008s
>>4.7.0 BRB 2009s
>>Living Gems Reptiles
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

When I had my first ever litter of BRBs born last year, I only offered thawed hoppers for the first 4-6 weeks. This was pretty much a failure. Only a couple accepted them right off the bat. When I finally got live, I fed them live for a few weeks and it took a while to get them switched to thawed.

With my other litters last year, I offered live hoppers right off the bat and all of them ate, and switching over to thawed was a little quicker.

This year I tweaked it a little bit. I offered live rat pinks the first 3 feedings and got a near 100% feed rate. On the 4th feeding I offered warm thawed rat pinks and all but 2 have been loyal f/t feeders since!

So basically it seems to work better for me to offer live right off the bat to get them going. It seems as though I got them eating thawed faster than if I had started with it and tried to "convince" them to want it.

Hope this helps.
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Aubrey Ross

�
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Interesting, thanks for the post!
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

I bet I know where the snake in question came from. I always start them on live. As Aubrey said, offering frozen and thawed to new Rainbow Boas for their very first meals is almost pointless. Cliff has listed good stuff to try. Keep trying using all his tips and something will probably eventually work. All Rainbow Boas will switch. They always switch to dead before they get large enough that you have to worry about a big rat injuring them. Many of mine take thawed mice for their third or fourth meal. Some of them take a very long time. I would rather feed them what they want every week and watch them grow than have them miss meals and fall behind their siblings in growth. The tip that Dave mentioned about feeding them a fresh killed rodent is also excellent. See if you can find someone to "fresh kill" rodents for you for a couple meals if the other things do not work.

Thanks Jeff!

Yup, you know where she came from.

All my other rainbows accepted f/t from the start, so she has singled herself out for my [bleep]ing. I'm sure she'll switch eventually, I'm just impatient!

I am about an hour's drive away from a source of commercial live rodents, which is one of the reasons why I'm so anxious for her to get with the program. I feel relatively safe with gathering pinky/fuzzy/hopper wild mice for her, in terms of parasites, but if she were still refusing once we got to larger animals I would be really nervous. And I don't want to start keeping clean mice for just one uncooperative critter, either.

Anyway -- we'll get her there sooner or later. I should be receiving a fresh shipment of miceicles today or tomorrow, and perhaps they'll smell better to her. I'll start trying the tricks to convince her, and we'll see what happens!
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Letting her go without for a couple weeks to get her hungry might be the best method to try.

>>Letting her go without for a couple weeks to get her hungry might be the best method to try.

Yeah, I tried that one already. She didn't care. But if she doesn't cave with the other tricks, I'll try it again eventually.

I won't do this unless I have to, but what eventually worked with my uncooperative hondo hatchling was a few weeks of force feeding pinky heads. That snake went for FOUR MONTHS before it decided to eat, but it caved in after three or four pinky heads once a week....
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Yes! Turning her nose up at the broccoli!
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters