Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I fed my colubrids saturday. Come home today and found one dead house snake, a corn has regurged and isn't looking good and my wonderful male speckled was dead too

I'm taking the dead ones for necropsies tomorrow, and depending on that I'm taking the corn snake in for the vet to look at

The house snake was just dead in cage, nothing particular...stretched out and gone.
The king snake had his head at an odd angle, mouth open, but the lump was still far down so I don't think he was mid regurge?
The corn looks weak and tired best I can describe it. I fully expect her die.

Aye aye aye. :-/ THe others still look OK. I'll see what the vet says I guess.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

First thing I would do is quarantine your food and water supply. You may do well to bring a mouse from the bag you are working out of to the vet as well. Throw away all sitting water and go to bottled water temporarily til you figure out what happened. You might take stool samples from the affected cages as well as any unaffected that were fed from the same bag. The only other thing that it could be would be a thermostat problem, but most guys with moderate colubrid collections dont worry about that too much. Good luck!

The food came from a pet store; usually I use f/t but I've got three house snakes that won't take that. I got home and 2 of those were in shed, so I gave the leftovers to these guys :-/ I threw out the one that was regurged already cause I wasn't thinking clearly.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

For once, I pretty much agree with Jeff. The history of an atypical food item/source along with multiple deaths shortly after feeding is a strong indicator. Of course, I'm pretty sure you've figured that out already.
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

First off, I am most sorry to hear of Varanid's loss. Major bummer.

Secondly, what could be in the food or water that would kill or sicken that quickly?
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

I don't know and that's got me worried; it's why I'm taking the dead ones in tonight for necropsy. I don't *think* it's the water cause I use tap water for everyone and the others seem fine. So I just don't know. I'm worried it may be something else but I don't know what else it would be that did it that quick, hit those three snakes and nothing else?

The corn and king were in the same rack, the house snake was in a different one. same source of bedding for everyone (large bags of cypress), same water...the other animals in thier respective racks are fine, as is on BP that ate a rat from the same store.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

Just wondering if you added any new additions to your collection recently. If you have multiple previously healthy animals all suddenly dying, I'd first suspect some kind of viral or bacterial infection being the cause. Good luck, hope the Vet identifies the problem.

Nope. Last new addition was in...Oct of last year.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

If the pet store had "mouse mites" they may have dusted or sprayed some or all of their mouse cages with some type of bug killer. Whatever bug killer the pet store might have used could still be on the mice in varying amounts, depending on how many mouse cages they were using/treating and when/how much bug killer they used.
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www.hcu-tx.org/

>>Secondly, what could be in the food or water that would kill or sicken that quickly?

Who knows? I would suspect a chemical intoxication, but that's just speculation. Perhaps the pet store mice were treated for mites or fleas with something toxic. Perhaps they were kept on toxic bedding. Perhaps something else.

Infectious causes are not likely to strike as suddenly, or to affect multiple animals all at the same time. But that doesn't mean infection is impossible.

Necropsy is absolutely the right thing to do here. Also toxicology. Also THOROUGH questioning of the pet store owner and examination of live mice from the store, AND their habitat.
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

For once, I pretty much agree with Jeff

WOW---how did that taste??

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. I am simply observant enough and honest enough to notice those rare occurrences.
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

If you got frozen from the pet store and it is a chain I would go back and grab another rodent and have it tested by your vet. It would be a big deal(in your favor $)if it was found that they were selling LAB SURPLUS, which could expose snakes to a myriad of potential problems. You would easily recoup the animal cost, the vet cost and a good deal of "pain and suffering" to keep it out of the papers! Let alone promote business of the rodent vendors here on kingsnake.com!

which was it?

"The food came from a pet store; usually I use f/t but I've got three house snakes that won't take that."

He usually feeds f/t, but he's got some snakes that won't take f/t. Therefore he bought pet store mice.
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Yep. They (were) live. Now they're dead and so are my snakes. I wonder if the one the king ate is still testable? It's been in his gut a few days at this point but...
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

Have any more died? Have you spoken to the pet store?
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Hopefully you at least refrigerated the snake to slow the decomp. Toxic chemicals should still show up in tests, but you now run the risk of a vet not being super interested in helping you....

I put him in the freezer.
I don't want to speak to the pet store without getting stuff from a vet first.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

>>I put him in the freezer.
>>I don't want to speak to the pet store without getting stuff from a vet first.

I think you ought to start asking them questions right away. The longer you wait, the fuzzier memories will be -- and the more evidence will be lost.

Good luck!
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

"I think you ought to start asking them questions right away. The longer you wait, the fuzzier memories will be -- and the more evidence will be lost"

I definitely would not bring anything up to the store at ALL yet until I had some real HARD facts to have in my arsenal. If he brings it up prior to "knowing" anything for certain, they can better prepare to simply play it off, and even get rid of the feeder mice evidence at the store, change the cage conditions, relocate other animals, etc...

I think it would be FAR better not mention squat to the store until he knows more about EXACTLY what caused their deaths. I don't see it helping him out at all otherwise. The store would simply insinuate he is slandering their animal's and conditions right off the bat with absolutely nothing to back any of this up, know what I mean?

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

My thoughts exactly. And hell, I've bought from them occasionally for 2 years now (supplies and feeders mostly). I want to know for sure if it was them before I accuse 'em cause I know and like them.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

>>My thoughts exactly. And hell, I've bought from them occasionally for 2 years now (supplies and feeders mostly). I want to know for sure if it was them before I accuse 'em cause I know and like them.

Nobody said anything about accusing anyone. But you need to ask questions NOW. Mysteries aren't solved by NOT looking for info.
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

But exactly what would you ask them that would help his case, and not actually hinder it?

1) question to store....Hey, is it possible that your feeder rodents killed my snakes?

1) answer from store..NO!, what the HELL are you talking about???

2) question to store... Has anyone else complained to you about sick or dead snakes from your feeder rodents?

2) answer from store...of COURSE not!, what the hell are you trying to say here anyway dude??

HAHAA!!

I honestly think asking them ANYTHING at this point would be quite useless until he "KNOWS" what killed them....period!, otherwise the conversations lead to nowhere.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I disagree. After all, the police don't refrain from questioning witnesses until AFTER they've solved a crime (sorry, I'm watching TV at the moment....). Asking questions doesn't mean anybody is guilty of anything, but it can be an essential part of figuring out a mystery.

Suggestion: "Hey there. I've just had a couple of snakes die, and I'm trying to rule out all the possibilities of what might have caused the problem. I had just fed them before they died, so I wanted to make absolutely sure that there was nothing about the mice that might have killed them. I'd really appreciate it if you could help me out with some information. Can you tell me where your mice came from? (answer) Have you had them for very long? (answer) I don't suppose you noticed anything that might have been wrong with the mice....or did you need to treat them for anything like fleas or mites? (answer) Thanks so much for your help!"

It doesn't have to be adversarial. It's an investigation, after all, not a trial.
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Yeah, but in my opinion, the store will do whatever it takes to wash their hands of ANYTHING to do with this if at all possible once they learn of this. And once you start asking any questions, that will INSTANTLY sound the alarm to cover up any possibilities of it originating from their store whatsoever!. As soon as he left, more than likely they would be getting rid of every single rodent there was in the store..LOL!

To me, it is better to go in there AFTER it is known that it was indeed the store's rodents and saying..."okay folks, see this toxicology report??, this is what my veterinarian found caused my snakes deaths shortly after I purchased some feeder rodents from this store. Now do you want to do this the "easy way"?, or the HARD WAY??, the choice is yours. You can pay me a very fair price for replacing my snakes that died, or we can go to court and you will STILL pay me for my snakes that died, AND any and all other additional expenses that will be involved. It would be nice if we didn't have to go that route, don't you agree?

Also, like Jeff said, you go in there and get some more rodents BEFORE any of this is brought up so they can be tested if need be BEFORE the store is alerted to get rid of all the feeder rodents so there is nothing to go on!..LOL!. The last thing the store will want is for the path to lead directly to their feeder rodents.

Making sure all his "ducks" are in a row is key to any closure here. It is doubtful that anyone working there is going to divulge any info on where they get their feeder's from just out of the blue voluntarily once they sense a big problem is on the horizon, and only the upper manager personel would probably know anyway, certainly not the kid at the cash register, or the other kid in the small critter department that grabs them by the tail and drops them in the paper bag and staples it shut...LOL!

See, asking them anything will only let them know there was a serious problem. He wants the ball in HIS court, not theirs!. That's why he will want to march in there AFTER he buys some more rodents(and keeps them in case they need to be tested), and AFTER he gets some necropsy results that can hopefully conclude it was the stores feeder rodents.

Now if the necropsy results come back inconclusive, then he would have no proof of anything bad causing the snake's deaths from their store, so he THEN he would have nothing to loose by asking questions since knowing the cause from the vet is out the question.

The timing of the well-planned sequence of things here is key. Not walking in there asking questions so the owner can get rid of everything and get the employees together to get a good made-up story concocted.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>To me, it is better to go in there AFTER it is known that it was indeed the store's rodents

But remember, this isn't CSI. In real life you can't run every test known to man in 30 seconds, without concern for cost, as you can on TV. It is very likely that Varanid will NEVER know what killed those snakes -- but asking questions will help to increase the chances of finding the culprit.

Also, like Jeff said, you go in there and get some more rodents BEFORE any of this is brought up so they can be tested if need be BEFORE the store is alerted

Now this part is a good idea. But, of course, buying rodents doesn't preclude asking questions.
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

"But remember, this isn't CSI. In real life you can't run every test known to man in 30 seconds, without concern for cost, as you can on TV. It is very likely that Varanid will NEVER know what killed those snakes"

Unfortunately, that is VERY likely how this whole thing might end up. And also without getting way out of control with the ol' wallet!.

That would be too bad too, because something very toxic happened to those snakes, so I hope he can find the cause.

Good luck with it varanid!!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Varanid is out 3 snakes(cost-say minimum $100ea), vet cost(toxicology tests cost $$--300 more minimum)as well as the cost of the rodents, time and aggrevation. While he THINKS its a good relationship any time someone comes in looking for $600 plus a pet store is going to feel it HARD. Chances are thats a weeks pay for the OWNER, not much $$ in running a pet store. Times are tough everywhere, they arent going to give it up easy if at all. Is it worth pursuing?? Only Varanid can answer that. Small claims court isnt a layup, its more time and more $$ without any assurance of getting it back. Ever WIN a small claims suit? Even winning doesnt mean you will get the $$! Courts HATE snakes, bringing them up might get him in more trouble with permits, inspections or whatever they want to do to him. Either way it ends up his relationship is over if he brings it up, and if the results arent posetive with the vet he can at least keep the relationship. Do you understand now DOC? There is no chance the pet store will willingly work with him on this.

I hate to disappoint ya, Jeff.....but I'm not in the mood to feed the troll today. Go try to start trouble somewhere else.
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

"There is no chance the pet store will willingly work with him on this"

I think that is the true reality of the situation myself. And the rest of what you said about it is pretty much dead-on as well.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

IMHO you guys still have the wrong perspective on this. It shouldn't be about making the pet store pay for the dead snakes -- it should be about preventing more deaths in the future. Therefore, it should be a COLLABORATIVE effort with the pet store -- NOT an accusatory one.

But in any case, I think varanid has submited the snakes now -- and, hopefully, he bought and froze a couple more mice from the pet store, as well. He'll have to decide for himself whether to talk to the pet store folks or not, and we'll all just have to wait around and see what happens!
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

I couldn't agree more about preventing more snake deaths, but that would probably also fall into place in conjuction with varanid's waiting for results from the vet first. Then it would take care of both problems at the very same time.

I just don't see how he can even bring anything up without knowing anything specific. Otherwise it carries no weight at all, and is only pure speculation with zero to back any of it up with.

I would think that the store would then say...."what makes you think this store had anything to do with it?". Then when he tells them why he thinks so, they would immediately attempt to cover their tracks by getting rid of ALL possible evidence for any more potential findings that could bolster his claim later. Simple as that really.

Now I guess that might keep any other people from buying the same rodents from the store, but varanid would then be out of gas, unless the vet could produce hard findings as to EXACTLY how his snake's died. But I guess as long as he saved the receipt, and the dates still correlate with all this, he could very possibly still get some redemption, who knows.

Now if he went there and bought some more rodents, and they are later found to be tainted with something that caused the death of his snakes, then that would be the ideal situation.

Anyway, it all depends on how all these puzzle pieces unfold, so all I can say is I sincerely hope something positive can come out of all this however it may happen.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>> I just don't see how he can even bring anything up without knowing anything specific. Otherwise it carries no weight at all, and is only pure speculation with zero to back any of it up with.
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>> I would think that the store would then say...."what makes you think this store had anything to do with it?".

Cmon, Doug, you keep ignoring what I keep trying to tell you.

You DO NOT go in there accusing the store of doing anything wrong, or of having anything to do with the snake deaths. You go in there and say something like -- "Hey there. I've just had a couple of snakes die, and I'm trying to rule out all the possibilities of what might have caused the problem. I had just fed them before they died, so I wanted to make absolutely sure that there was nothing about the mice that might have killed them. I'd really appreciate it if you could help me out with some information. Can you tell me where your mice came from? (answer) Have you had them for very long? (answer) I don't suppose you noticed anything that might have been wrong with the mice....or did you need to treat them for anything like fleas or mites? (answer) Thanks so much for your help!"

This is an investigation. And investigations are carried out by INVESTIGATING. They do NOT start with accusations -- just questions.

>>Then when he tells them why he thinks so, they would immediately attempt to cover their tracks by getting rid of ALL possible evidence for any more potential findings that could bolster his claim later.

That's why it's a good idea to buy a couple more mice first, and freeze them. Just as backup, just in case.
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

This morning; went in to check on everyone when I woke up to pee.

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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

I learned a long time ago - get mice from where you know how they are kept. There are tons of suppliers online that guarantee their product. It is worth letting the snakes go hungry for a week longer while waiting for a shipment. What happened to you happened to some of my snakes one time years ago. And I found out the pet store had No Pest Strip above the mouse cages. Since that fateful day, I ordered from online sources.
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Mark

>>I learned a long time ago - get mice from where you know how they are kept. There are tons of suppliers online that guarantee their product. It is worth letting the snakes go hungry for a week longer while waiting for a shipment. What happened to you happened to some of my snakes one time years ago. And I found out the pet store had No Pest Strip above the mouse cages. Since that fateful day, I ordered from online sources.
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>>Mark

Funny thing with that is that two local stores and two local big reptile breeders and several small ones all want me to up my production of feeders 'cause they have had problems with online sources. The stores can't keep up with demand and a couple of suppliers of live have had crappy mice or no mice lately. Go figure.

My feelings with the pet store is that it is either honest or not. Sadly, when confronted an amazing amount of people resort to lying. Scary.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

>>... And I found out the pet store had No Pest Strip above the mouse cages. Since that fateful day, I ordered from online sources.

What's the danger with the pest strips? I kept them in my snake room. I've occasionally set them directly on top of an isolation cage for a day or two, if i got a snake with mites. Never had a problem. (incidentally, some Australian grassfinches get mites in their air sacs--yes, "air sac mites"--and for a decade or more i kept pest strips in my bird room, and if I had a nesting adult show signs of them I'd put the parents, nest and all, in a small cage, put a pest strip on top of the cage and throw a towel over the shebang, to confine the vapors. Never a problem.

The only caution i ever exercised was airing new strips out for a couple of days in a large open space before putting them to use.

I'd wonder if maybe the manufacturer has changed the strength or active ingredients or someting, but I've done this as recently as this year, with a hatchling splendida, without problems.

I just hate to see the pest strips get a bum rap, since they can be such a useful tool imho.

Hi Terry,
Didn't mean to bum the pest strip. Used wisely it is a good protection from mites. The key is wisely.

The chemical gets airborne and typically lands on what is directly below - water, mice, etc. The chemical on the mice is not much of an issue to the mice, unless a snake is going to eat those mice soon after. Depends on the severity of exposure obviously, the individual snake, etc.

I bet your pest strip is not hanging right above an open mouse cage..
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Mark

So, any preliminary updates on this mystery yet? Anything else die or become sick since this initial wave? Just wondering.

>>So, any preliminary updates on this mystery yet? Anything else die or become sick since this initial wave? Just wondering.

Nothing else sick or dead. The corn's doing OK too. The test results aren't back yet; it may be next week before I know.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

Good to hear you've had no further loses. Those Retics are awesome, BTW.
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Thanks They and the Florida kings have some real strong similarities that make me like them. Fairly inquisitive/personable, great feeders, (mostly) calm, intelligent-seeming...I like them!
I just can't afford to keep as many retics as kings
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa