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Boa behavior

patoquack Oct 19, 2010 05:20 PM

without meaning to be argumentative - I was thinking about this and the whole concept of boas being aggressive.

i prefer JB's description about boa behaviour being described as defensive because I prefer to beleive that when a boa does strike or bites a human - it's not being "mean".. but most likely just wanting to defend itself. also, in my initial response in the post below, I also chose to use the word defensive, so I thought it was already clear that I thought along those same lines.

but there are different ways of protecting yourself. there's the "fight or flight" concept.. so, sometimes a boa will protect itself by using aggressive behavior (hissing, striking, biting) or it might try and escape or just hide.??

also, in the animal world - aggression is used for other reasons - not just defense. some animals are territorial and use aggression to keep competitors away. some animals will use aggressive behavior when competing for a mate or protecting their young.

from anyone's experience, are there any other reasons a boa might use aggressive behavior other then when defending itself?

Replies (14)

Jonathan_Brady Oct 19, 2010 05:31 PM

Discussion is never argumentative, IMO.

>>but there are different ways of protecting yourself. there's the "fight or flight" concept.. so, sometimes a boa will protect itself by using aggressive behavior (hissing, striking, biting) or it might try and escape or just hide.??

We do not give boas the option to flee and hide very often in captivity. However, they still try.

>>also, in the animal world - aggression is used for other reasons - not just defense. some animals are territorial and use aggression to keep competitors away. some animals will use aggressive behavior when competing for a mate or protecting their young.

I don't see any aggressive behavior in what you're describing. Simply defensive behavior. Defending a territory (boas don't fall into this category, as far as I know), or defending their young (they DEFINITELY can fall into this category).

The only example I can think of that a boa may be perceived as aggressive, is mating. Male on male combat could be considered an act of aggression on the part of one boa (the aggressor), and defense on the other.

Having said that, it may just be "dominance" at play, not aggression. I'm not a behavioralist so I don't know whether dominance is ALWAYS considered aggression or not, but I don't believe it is, IMO. So, I suppose it's possible that even male on male combat is not an aggressive behavior, and simply is a dominant behavior.

Good topic!
jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

patoquack Oct 19, 2010 10:24 PM

cool, so it's agreed. if you harrass a boa (which no one should ever do) - expect that it may react aggressively in an attempt to defend itself, or even enough so that you will never want to harrass it again. and you are correct - captive boas really don't have the option of running away, although I've certainly had a few that have tried... (trying to push that tub back in and keep that head pointed IN the tub.. it's not always the easiest thing to do!)

here's what I'm using as my definition of aggression..
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/aggression

so - defending itself, defending their young, sometimes among males during breeding? and how about defending a meal? any other times a boa may act aggressively?

I'm still sorta stuck about feeding behavior not being aggressive. I'm not sure if merely being assertive with the bunny is going to work.. "come on mr bunny.. I'm seriously hungry. I need to eat you. Cooperate with me or else.."

what's the logic behind saying that feeding it not an aggressive behavior? I would appreciate being enlightened.

so, here's the off topic pic - Snapping Turtles make GREAT pets.. at least so far it has been. I'm trying to figure out how I'll be housing it when it gets larger.

Jonathan_Brady Oct 19, 2010 11:17 PM

>>cool, so it's agreed. if you harrass a boa (which no one should ever do) - expect that it may react aggressively in an attempt to defend itself, or even enough so that you will never want to harrass it again.

heheh, I didn't agree to that. Don't go putting words in my mouth.

I associate "aggression" with intimidation and hostility. As does your definition at the link given.

I do not associate defense with intimidation and hostility. I associate defense with fear and trepidation. VERY different.

Here's an example:

Let's say in High School, there was some alpha male jerk who developed early and was 6'6", 250 lbs of solid muscle. Then, there was the ____ geek (fill in the blank with whatever kind of geek you want). The muscle freak decided to corner the geek in the cafeteria, steal his money, throw his books in the garbage, and write obscene things on his forehead while the entire school laughed at him. That's aggression.

Now, the geek decides one day that he's going to stand up for himself so he brings a gun to school. The alpha male jerk starts in on the geek and the geek warns him. The alpha male jerk doesn't heed the warning and proceeds to hit the geek. The geek pulls out the gun and he kills the alpha male. The geek is exhibiting defensive behavior.

See the difference? The geek was actually the more violent of the two in terms of outcome, but he was not at all aggressive. He was defensive.

>>so - defending itself, defending their young, sometimes among males during breeding? and how about defending a meal? any other times a boa may act aggressively?

I think what this is coming down to is that we each have our own definitions of defensive. You are apparently defining defensive behavior as OFFENSIVE behavior. Having played sports my entire life, I see a clear distinction between an aggressive offense, and a reactive defense.

>>what's the logic behind saying that feeding it not an aggressive behavior? I would appreciate being enlightened.

Feeding is a survival instinct. Not an aggressive behavior. Big difference. Again, I'll use the word "intimidation" to draw a distinction between the two. Feeding is merely surviving/thriving. Aggressive killing is a method of intimidation. Feeding is not done to intimidate.

PS, when I was bored as a kid, I read the dictionary. And a thesaurus. That might explain why some people find my posts to be very direct. There's no "fluff" (as my fiancee calls it) in a dictionary. There ain't much fluff in my posts either. But I assure you, they're rarely aggressive. This one certainly is not.

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

patoquack Oct 21, 2010 03:00 PM

I think you think way too much.

hissing, striking and biting - in my world, are aggressive behaviors.

but that's just me.

Jonathan_Brady Oct 21, 2010 05:30 PM

>>I think you think way too much.
>>
>>hissing, striking and biting - in my world, are aggressive behaviors.
>>
>>but that's just me.
-----
What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

patoquack Oct 23, 2010 11:34 AM

"PS, when I was bored as a kid, I read the dictionary. And a thesaurus. That might explain why some people find my posts to be very direct. There's no "fluff" (as my fiancee calls it) in a dictionary. There ain't much fluff in my posts either. But I assure you, they're rarely aggressive. This one certainly is not."

you didn't read any encyclopedias? only a dictionary and a thesaurus? just kidding with you JB. I think it's great that you were such in inquisitive kid.. probably stayed out of trouble then?

I felt I didn't give you a fair response so I took the time to try to do this better.
I am enjoying the research by the way. AND I learned how to do the smiley faces!

I'm sure you could find many references that support your theroy as well (in fact, the last one I cite below includes a satement that totally supports you).

from the website I initially referred to in my previous post..

"aggression
[əgresh′ən]
Etymology: L, aggressio, to attack
a forceful behavior, action, or attitude that is expressed physically, verbally, or symbolically. It may arise from innate drives or occur as a defense mechanism [], often resulting from a threatened ego." (a threatened EGO?? hey, let-go of my ego..!)

and..

"fear-induced aggression
accompanied by fear [] and usually when escape is not possible; may be associated with previous unpleasant experiences."

and from this link:
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Aggression (psychology)

"aggression, a form of behavior characterized by physical or verbal attack. It may appear either appropriate and self-protective, [] even constructive, as in healthy self-assertiveness, or inappropriate and destructive."

and..

"Aggression in humans ranges through fear-induced aggression [], parental disciplinary aggression, maternal aggression, and sexual aggression. One clearly biologically adaptive type, defensive aggression [], occurs when fight responses are mobilized in defense of an organism's vital interests, such as obtaining food or the protection of its young. The aim of defensive aggression is not destruction but the preservation of life []. Thus, aggression can serve both destructive and constructive purposes. Among animals, the varieties of aggression include most of the human types as well as predatory aggression, territorial defense, and sexually related aggression in competition for a mate."

another link:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Theories-of-Aggression

I found these two quotes:

1) "There are two types of aggression, and they are;

•Hostile/hot aggression: Is to do something aggressive and get some sort of satisfaction from it. Perhaps, planning someone's murder or robbing a bank. You get some sort of emotional reward from it.
•Instrumental/cold aggression: Is basically to do act in an aggressive way to preserve some kind of environmental reward out of it, such as; fighting for survival in a war." (I read "fighting for survival" as about the same as defending yourlself)

2) "Eventually, the last theory [Instinctive-Aggression Theory] is known to be instinctive, and innate, and part of our genes. For example, you have two male mammals fighting for one female, and the best gets the female mammal. In terms of human beings, it's fighting for survival. You're being attacked by someone, or getting raped, it's only natural you'll fight back for your life and maintain your existence."
fighting (an aggressive behavior) for the purpose of self defense??

These last quotes comes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggression and includes a statement about predation not being associated with aggression..
it also presents an argument relating aggression to violence that seems to go along the lines of your theory JB..

I know wikipedia is not the most trustworthy of sources, but I was impressed with the information that I found here..

"Aggression vs violence
In moral theories, such as argumentation ethics and the non-aggression principle, physical aggression is distinguished from violence. Aggression is considered the initiation of violence. Often, retaliatory violence and defensive violence is not considered aggression, because it is a responsive action."

"Aggression against outsiders
The most apparent type of aggression is that seen in the interaction between a predator and its prey. An animal defending itself against a predator becomes aggressive in order to survive and to ensure the survival of its offspring. Because aggression against a much larger enemy or group of enemies would lead to the death of an animal, animals have developed a good sense of when they are outnumbered.[6] This ability to gauge the strength of other animals gives animals a “fight or flight” response to predators; depending on how strong they gauge the predator to be, animals will either become aggressive or flee.

The need to survive and the viability of cooperative behavior as a survival strategy leads to a phenomenon known as altruism. An example of an altruistic act is the alarm call that is given when a predator is approaching. While this call will inform the community of a predator’s presence, it will also inform the predator of the whereabouts of the animal that gave the alarm call. While this would appear to give the alarm caller an evolutionary disadvantage, it would facilitate the continuation of this animal’s genes because its relatives and progeny would be more able to avoid predators.[7]

According to many researchers, predation is not aggression. Cats do not hiss or arch their backs when in pursuit of a rat, and the active areas in their hypothalamuses are more similar to those that reflect hunger than those that reflect aggression."

Ophidia_Junkie Oct 24, 2010 03:33 AM

I have a Harding Honduran that will put your ideas of aggressive/defensive behavior to the test. LOL I still haven't figured her out.



[img]http://www.sublimeboa.com/Content/Photos/Taz/09-20-08/DSC_9479.JPG[img]

When she's in her cage, she is clearly defensive. I say this because she will stay in her hide with her head out when I get around her cage, but you can tell she is building up for a strike by positioning her body inside the hide for a launch. I can change her water about 25% of the time without having to dodge a strike from her.

On the flip side, when I get her out, she acts aggressively best as I can summarize. She'll strike EVERY time, whether on the end of a hook, tail grabbed, wrapped in a towel, what ever. Set her on the ground, and there is no flight at all in her. In the pictures above, she is most definitely the aggressor. Meaning, she don't go the other way if she has the chance, I have to get out of her way because she comes to get me. No mistaking that is aggressive behavior.

I would tend to agree though, that MOST of the time, it's not aggression, but rather a defensive behavior.

My 2¢
Rick
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Sublime Boa Constrictor

KaiYudSai Oct 20, 2010 10:20 AM

If you compare a feeding strike to a defensive strike.... you can see very different behavior... Feeding response always follows with a coil up.... I think this is a different instinct... and probably has a different neurological pathway.....

Defensive attacks are usually brief followed by evasion/ defecation/ urination/ spraying of musk.... I know some species have very territorial behavior... retics get very territorial when they get larger..... but I've never seen boas behave the same way.... Now this is only based on observations I have made with my own animals..... But I have witnessed the mock combat between males.... and possibly see some of the territorial behavior there....but other than breeding time... boas seem rather easy going compared to other species I've kept...

I've had retics that NEVER calmed down..... defensively striked at any and ALL movement.... always seemed very stressed out.. and were also very susceptible to Respiratory infections... I had one that was ALWAYS sick.. I have to believe it had something to do with the python being stressed
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Marc Duhon
Lafayette, Louisiana
SURINAMBOAS.COM
kaiyudsai@SURINAMBOAS.COM

patoquack Oct 20, 2010 10:39 AM

wow! sure makes me second guess ever getting a retic.. I've actually spent a lot of time checking out the python ads.
do you have much experience to support the notion that if a larger constrictor is purchased as a newborn and stays in the same home with an experienced, responsible breeder - that it would be much more likely to have calm disposition?

the feeding and striking behavior got me thinking yesterday and I actually found one study on the internet that looked at several animal species and compared the act of killing to eating.. it was interesting that killing does not always lead to eating - especially among animals that you would think that it would.

I was also thinking about my own experience with CBB boas that routinely eat F/T prey. some of my animals will still strike and coil as if they thought they needed to kill the food item before eating it. and then some of my boas, just crawl up the the food item, figure out where the head it (how do they do that?) and just start swallowing. then when I was thinking of that, I realized that for my personal experience, the boas that did not strike and coil have mostly been the more docile individuals.

interesting stuff.

KaiYudSai Oct 20, 2010 12:23 PM

I have gotten baby captive bred retics... and hand raised them... about 50% of the time their temperament changed when they got to be larger..... I think it may be because they are very territorial.Or maybe it's because they are stressed from being cramped in a tiny cage..
In any case I never completely trusted them.... I see people taking pics of them leaving over and kissing their sweet little retics on the head and I just think "Can you imagine the plastic surgery that would be necessary it that snake would bite"..

THe bcc and bca I have on the other hand... are all very well acclimated.. Every now and then... when Im feeding.. the smell of the rats will cause some to strike at the glass... but I've only gotten bitten by youngsters that are flighty.. and seemed stressed out.... Knock on wood
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Marc Duhon
Lafayette, Louisiana
SURINAMBOAS.COM
kaiyudsai@SURINAMBOAS.COM

LarM Oct 20, 2010 02:59 PM

Food item, Anterior / Posterior , the way Boas figure out front from rear
on a prey item is really not too complicated.

It boils down to smell the use The vomeronasal organ (VNO), or Jacobson's organ.

In simple terms they smell the difference in the poopy end from the mouth end I believe.

Its probably a little more complicated than that but maybe not

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

Jonathan_Brady Oct 20, 2010 03:31 PM

I had read that in addition to smell, they also use their sensitive "chins" and rub it against the body of the animal to figure out which way the hair, feathers, scales, etc. are facing which tells them what direction to go to find the head.

Not sure if it's true or not, but based on my observations, it makes some sense (sometimes, lol - I have some WEIRD boas).

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

LarM Oct 20, 2010 09:08 PM

I can't disagree , I've watched my Boas do some very serious
inspection work on their meals

. . . Lar M
-----
Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

patoquack Oct 21, 2010 03:03 PM

good answer.. I like that. seems likely enough.

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