Reptile & Amphibian Forums

"The Elephant in the Living Room" is a new documentary film that is biased against all exotic animal ownership.

Here's an interview with the maker of the film, and here is the film's website.

I saw the trailer and I only have one thing to say. It really is true that if you score too high on an I.Q. test you can't be a cop isn't it? That really isn't just some urban myth from some city in Mass. it's really true.
If you don't like my opinion tough, as far as I am concerned I call it as I see it and I see a serious lack of intelligence hiding behind a tin shield out there and that clown is a prime example of it.

Coming soon to OHIO theaters. Im sure theres no coincidence there right?
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Pythons.Net

Yep. I wonder if it would be a good idea to organize herpers in Ohio to hand out info on the truth about exotic animal ownership, HSUS, PETA, etc. in front of movie theaters that are going to be showing this movie.

>>I saw the trailer and I only have one thing to say. It really is true that if you score too high on an I.Q. test you can't be a cop isn't it? That really isn't just some urban myth from some city in Mass. it's really true.
>> If you don't like my opinion tough, as far as I am concerned I call it as I see it and I see a serious lack of intelligence hiding behind a tin shield out there and that clown is a prime example of it.

Opinions are like anuses bro. Everyone has one and most stink. You call it as you see it and I'll call it as I see it. Sounds like you have had a run in with a "dumb" cop a time or two..
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HCU
Snakes of Hudspeth County, Texas

"Tin shields" aside, you have to admit Tim Harrison is more about an agenda then law enforcement...He likes to bill himself an expert on exotic animals.

Please take a few moments to check out the HSUS interview with him in case there is any ambiguity as to his stance - http://www.humanesociety.org/about/departments/hollywood/ace/tim_harrison_062308.html

He wants to see an end to the keeping of ALL exotics in captivity, plain and simple.

Here is his website though...
http://outreachforanimals.org/

As you can see, much like the famous Tippi Hedren, (and her rescue, http://www.shambala.org/ which, for the record, has had numerous violation & a mauling in its history) he is yet another one of these "I should be able to do it" - that is keep exotic animals and do educational programs - "but no one else should" people.

http://outreachforanimals.org/thankyou
In this link, you can see him posing with a Burmese Python & large Water Monitor, with children all around.

You can bet though, if that were one of us, showing one of our animals, he'd be making sure to enlighten everyone around that "its only a matter of time before that animals deadly instincts come out, and someone gets hurt or killed".

Whatever else Tim Harrison is, he is most definitely a hypocrite, and an enemy to common sense, and our hobby.

>>"Tin shields" aside, you have to admit Tim Harrison is more about an agenda then law enforcement...He likes to bill himself an expert on exotic animals.
>>
>>Please take a few moments to check out the HSUS interview with him in case there is any ambiguity as to his stance - http://www.humanesociety.org/about/departments/hollywood/ace/tim_harrison_062308.html
>>
>>He wants to see an end to the keeping of ALL exotics in captivity, plain and simple.
>>
>>Here is his website though...
>>http://outreachforanimals.org/
>>
>>As you can see, much like the famous Tippi Hedren, (and her rescue, http://www.shambala.org/ which, for the record, has had numerous violation & a mauling in its history) he is yet another one of these "I should be able to do it" - that is keep exotic animals and do educational programs - "but no one else should" people.
>>
>>http://outreachforanimals.org/thankyou
>>In this link, you can see him posing with a Burmese Python & large Water Monitor, with children all around.
>>
>>You can bet though, if that were one of us, showing one of our animals, he'd be making sure to enlighten everyone around that "its only a matter of time before that animals deadly instincts come out, and someone gets hurt or killed".
>>
>>Whatever else Tim Harrison is, he is most definitely a hypocrite, and an enemy to common sense, and our hobby.

Actually there's a lesson to be learned here for everyone. In TX Wardens ran into a few "herpers" that gave the rest of us a bad name and they latched onto that stereotype and applied it to all of us. Now we are all mad because we are treated like fringe element nut cases. Well apparently we are not above the same flawed thought process as evidenced by the person I was responding to. He's had a run in or two with a cop who he feels wronged him or just by watching the video and because of one cop, he's decided that all are mental midgets. Its much easier to paint any given group (whether it be law enforcement, herpers, gun owners, etc.) with a very broad brush rather than look at them as individuals. When you do so, what you are really doing outing yourself as lacking in intelligence. Just sayin...
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HCU
Snakes of Hudspeth County, Texas

If we don't work on getting some good PR for our community (the exotic owning community) we are going to end up going down.

I truly believe if this is how we are going to let ourselves be represented to the "general public", we should just roll over now, give up our animals, sell our equipment off, or just throw it away, and all start collecting stamps instead of what we do.

I think without being seen as a "legitimate" hobby, we are rather easy to paint with the broad brush as being a "dark and dangerous subculture".

I'd say from the amount of this stuff being pumped out, and how the public just eats it right up, we really don't have a chance. If we keep on letting this happen, with no rebuttal, we are only going to seem desperate and pathetic trying to counter it with pleas of salvaging our livelihoods later.

I sure wish I had money to devote to running adds, and making films...

I agree. I wonder if it would be a good idea to organize herpers in Ohio to hand out info on the truth about exotic animal ownership, HSUS, PETA, etc. in front of movie theaters that are going to be showing this movie.

We have to do something, and that (handing out information, and letting people really know what is going on) is something we who don't have a lot of money can do that is very beneficial.

Are the big breeders out there not scared? Or do you guys who do make good money from your animals know something us folks with a few pet snakes, don't? Are you going to be exempted and able to acquire permits to allow you to keep your animals or something?

What is your plan if the law makes your stock, and your business illegal?

And I was looking on the website that cop is affiliated with "Outreach For Animals"
http://www.outreachforanimals.org/inthenews
Our "deadly" snakes are certainly right on his radar...

Both he AND the "Elephant in the Living Room" facebook pages have the HSUS as one of their favorites.

It really looks like we are going to loose big time on this, as the flood of propaganda is getting bigger and bigger. I am upset that it seems neither the Humane Watch site, nor the center for consumer freedom has not (at least that I am aware of) bolstered support for the exotic animal keeping community...

>>"I am upset that it seems neither the Humane Watch site, nor the center for consumer freedom has not (at least that I am aware of) bolstered support for the exotic animal keeping community..."

If we paid them to advocate and lobby for us, like agriculture and restaurants do, I believe they would be happy to lobby in our favor.

In my opinion, the Gov. Strickland/HSUS deal combined with the showing of this movie in Ohio should be an opportunity for grass roots herpers to voice our side and call attention to our defamation by the animal rights movement (HSUS, PETA, Animal Planet, The Nature Conservancy, Defenders of Wildlife, etc.), but we have to act quickly or we'll loose out.

"If we paid them to advocate and lobby for us, like agriculture and restaurants do, I believe they would be happy to lobby in our favor."

That would be the thing to do then. Why aren't we? We are certainly right smack dab in the crosshairs of the HSUS and other such organizations right now.

"In my opinion, the Gov. Strickland/HSUS deal combined with the showing of this movie in Ohio should be an opportunity for grass roots herpers to voice our side and call attention to our defamation by the animal rights movement (HSUS, PETA, Animal Planet, The Nature Conservancy, Defenders of Wildlife, etc.), but we have to act quickly or we'll loose out."

Indeed. It is a GREAT idea. We should all be acting on it if we are close enough to.

"It really looks like we are going to loose big time on this, as the flood of propaganda is getting bigger and bigger. I am upset that it seems neither the Humane Watch site, nor the center for consumer freedom has not (at least that I am aware of) bolstered support for the exotic animal keeping community..."

HumaneWatch has a Facebook page - we (the exotic animal community) could post for "our" cause there, too. Lord knows I try whenever I can. But, as someone else said, to get them to really champion us as well as the Ag community, etc. would take money.

This is what I was trying to get across to Andrew. The reptile community has a much larger reach than simply breeders.
My rabbit breeder would probably take up arms to defend my rights
yet he hates snakes. Walmart, feed stores, my god my electric company and my $900.00 wintertime bills.
The big breeders are not who or what is going to stop this. It is going to be regular people getting the word out to the general public. Like it or not as big as the reptile community has become we are still a subculture.
My advice. Create a postcard. It needs to be simple and to the point. Basically saying they support our rights and don't believe the Fed.govt should be involved. And for good measure they don't believe for a second that Burmese pythons are or will overrun the country.
Someone smarter than me can design the card make it where we can print them out at home. And if you do shows pass them out, let them fill them out and you put postage on them and mail them to congress. If you don't do shows take a snake to the park you'll have an instant crowd.
I know people preach about NOT having your snake in public maybe that is the wrong approach. I'm not saying to walk into a grocery store with a retic wrapped around your neck. But in an open safe environment what better way to introduce the public to the grace and beauty of a big snake.
In our world Bob Clark, the Barkers, Tom C... these may be big names in the real world they mean nothing. WE HAVE TO REACH everyday Americans. I have tens of thousands of people see my show every year, Kachunga has more than that. I'll pass out these postcards and pay for postage myself. Grassroots. Congress cares much more about 10,000 soccer moms than a bunch of snake breeders.
I guarantee it. D.C.

"It is going to be regular people getting the word out to the general public."

I do try, as often as I can & make sure to educate people as to what is really going on when I do programs & outreach. I always encourage others to do the same.

"My advice. Create a postcard. It needs to be simple and to the point. Basically saying they support our rights and don't believe the Fed.govt should be involved."

A post card is an excellent idea. I might have to go invest in a printer. Maybe I need to ask and see if I can log more time at places who DO support our hobby like That Fish Place, with a big snake or lizard & pro herp paraphernalia to hand out, and send the message. I agree 100% that we have to reach "the common man" if we are going to pull through this thing.

I remember trying to get people to send in letters and signatures and all for the python ban. Most of the pet shops I went too wouldn't even let me distribute materials, let alone stand there with a large snake and try to talk to people about what was happening. I found that once I did have a place (That Fish Place in Lancaster PA) it really wasn't hard to get people to listen, and be sympathetic. I then had many people pet and touch Goucho, my Argentine Boa, this included people who where afraid of snakes, and people who said they had no interest in ever keeping a snake or other reptile, but who said they supported my right to do so.

Because of things like this, I personally believe that the more that people saw people with pet reptiles, that is, well cared for, docile and easy to handle pet reptiles, the more they would say, oh, that is a pet for that so inclined person, and it doesn't appear to me to be the ruthless killer that TV has made it out to be.

I feel hiding our animals away makes it look like we have something TO hide. I am completely aware this suggestion is a catch 22 situation, as some people will dislike our animals one way or another, and like to come after us based on the "danger" angle, and by being visible with them we open ourselves up to persecution from those individuals and organizations.

I know some people who have gone out of their way to try to get people involved. For example, I have a good friend who made "Keepers Unite" ribbons for cars, (I have a link for them, but don't want to get into trouble for posting it) and is selling them at his cost. They really make no money off of the sales of these ribbons what so ever, but they thought it would be a good idea to show support for the hobby.

Jason created the design, and they then sent them to be made. I believe they even contacted USARK about putting a link up or something and if I remember correctly, were basically given the brush off, which, IMO, sucks.

Its sad to me to think that marijuana looks like it might well be legal to buy/sell/use in the USA in my lifetime, but getting caught with a large constrictor like Monty in my photo, might account to a felony.

since my name was mentioned, I offered the design to USARK and never heard back, though, to be fair, I know they were crazy busy when I contacted them, so i'm not going to pass judgement one way or the other. I've tried going a few other avenues with it as far as well known venues and have hit multiple dead ends. I have only requested one person put up a link, but I'm not going to name names or go into any amount of detail or i know this post will get pulled.

As far as the suggestion of a postcard-I think that is a fantastic idea and would be a great way to get a message to the powers that be.
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www.jasonrbartolettreptiles.webs.com

http://vimeo.com/11225432

This is the director, and he is saying he is "informing people that at any given day they could be attacked by a wild animal"

He is also quoting HSUS statistics.

On top of that, listen to what he has to say about about having a python, boa, venomous snake. or tiger in your home - they ONLY belong in the wild, as "ultimately they are going to be destroyed or destroy someone."

Really, are we all that misguided, and that crazy?

According to the HSUS. Watch this:

https://www.ohiochannel.org/MediaLibrary/Media.aspx?fileId=127645&returnTo=Collection

That link is broken.
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Tim Cole
www.austinherpsociety.org
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

Try this link:
www.wosu.org/allsides/

Click on "Videotaped episodes of All Sides with Ann Fisher on the Ohio Channel" on the center right side of the page and then look for the exotic animal segment. The direct link to it doesen't seem to work when I post it here.

The Kentucky Reptile Zoo & that confiscated snakes have been taken down there...Wow.

He even goes on to talk about how he used to "be on the dark side" when he bred & sold exotic animals. Its sickening hearing him go on, he sounds just like Tippi Hedren.

I was alarmed by some of the misinformation that was being splattered out there by Terry Wilkins Captive Born Reptiles, like claiming that snakes size is directly related to feeding it, (I know it is somewhat, but, IMO, not like he made it sounds) and that there has "never been a death due to constricting snakes worldwide" or some other such gobble-de-gook, I guess me might have meant in Ohio?

Once Wayne Pacelle gets going, its enough to make you gag.

When he says the bill is "a work in progress" - yes, you know what that means, its a work in progress until all things are banned.

Tippi Hedren's daughter is Melanie Griffith.

When Wayne Pacelle claims that "he is not opposed to the confinement of wild animals" in this clip - I can't even believe it...anyone who wants clarification on that just needs to go check out the HSUS website.

Everything Tim Harrison talks about is 90% -> He said 90% of the people who keep these predators end up putting them down, 90% of these exotics have never seen the vet, and so on.

Wayne Pacelle says "Millions of dollars spent on cleaning up after all these messes, and animals people discard"

Sure. I don't for a second doubt that. But compare the issue to dogs & cats & livestock. If thats the reason for the ban, then a better case could be written for the banning of those other animals.

(Sorry, this stuff just makes my blood boil)

"Everything Tim Harrison talks about is 90% -> He said 90% of the people who keep these predators end up putting them down, 90% of these exotics have never seen the vet, and so on."

This part jumped out at me, too. It's a classic misdirection/misrepresentation. Of course 90% (or whatever the actual number is) of them are "put down!" Just like probably 90% or more domestic pets are euthanized when they become too ill or too old...a part of the equation he fails to clarify.

65% percent of all statistics are made up on the spot. So when you see numbers like that just remember that 435 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot.
On the euthanasia aspect, I wonder what the actual percentage is of dogs and cats that are euthanized. It is very rare for someone to just let their pet die a natural death. Obviously in most cases for good reasons, but I guess if your pet tiger gets old you should just let it suffer in this clowns eyes.

What theatre is this going to play in? I personally know the manager at the Cobb theatre near my home. They would NEVER bump a film out of one of the major studios to play a documentary that going to sell 8 tickets to its premier.
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1.0 Albino American alligator, "Smoke"
1.1 American alligator,"Al Bite Ya & Molly"
1.1 Purple Albino Reticulated Pythons, "Gumbo & Abita"
0.1 Eastern Gaboon Viper, "Gabbie" Recently passed away at 24 years old
Help me find this snake!

Knowing how morally and ethically compromised the HSUS is, they would probably buy a great bulk of these "tickets" with the donations they receive from the gullable public who watched their "help animal shelters save the poor, abused puppies and kitties" TV ads, and then claim that their "over 11 million supporters helped contribute to the showing of this film".

I can possibly see that as being the next HSUS scandal to be exposed by HumaneWatch. It wouldn't surprise me.

Haven't read all this, don't get here as often as I used to.

My comment is -- we are getting screwed by "Authority", quasi-authority, poser-authority, and wanna-be authority.

Good Cop bad Cop, makes no matter.

There's always the veneer facade of rational pushed to the front for public consumption, for any agenda by any faction.

And there is always the the primary motivation clutched tightly and held close by the perpetrators.

It's a shell game. Let's not get led off target by decoys and stagecraft.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Exotic animals: pets or predators?

http://www.wdtn.com/dpp/news/wdtn-exotic-animals:-pets-or-predators?
Exotic animals: pets or predators?