Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The web address has an interesting article on the cricket virus with comments from Armstrong's.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2010/0910/Jiminy!-Cricket-farms-in-US-face-crisis

Everyone must understand, there will not be an adequate supply of crickets this spring for breeders, hobbyists, zoos, etc. This is a given. To make matters worse, the obvious choice will be superworms causing a shortage of them as well.

Everyone should consider what their contingency plan will be. By the time peak season comes around it will be too late.

I started my own superworm breeding project in mid-June and just now have pretty much adult superworms available to feed out.

Roaches are another option to consider. Again, colonies should be established and set up in advance.

Silkworms are also a good option and are my main staple. But, they are not a one bug solution as their high moisture content can cause very loose stools. They also take some practice and meticulous cleanliness.

This should be an interesting spring.

It probably means much higher prices on all feeders,too....and big trouble for all beardie breeders.

As a rescue, I'm really worried about what will happen when the pet store bug supply becomes spotty or dries up.

I wonder if earthworms can be used long term. I have fed them in a pinch when shipments of crix ran low or died in the heat during transit....the dragons loved the worms and my big girls gobbled up nightcrawlers. There was a huge garden where I used to live and turning over the soil I would get quite a few.

I wouldn't feed alot of earthworms to dragons...especially ones picked out of the garden. Being in the ground, they can absorb any chemical fertilizers, insecticides, etc used in the garden which can prove toxic to your dragon over a period of time. Also, earthworms could carry parasites that could cause troubles for your dragon.

I used to feed earthworms to my tropical fish as a treat and ended up having my tank covered in little parasitic worms...had to clean up the entire tank and treat all the fish for parasites...and this was just offering a single earthworm. Now these parasites may not infest bearded dragons...but rather not risk it.

Some insect larvae/grubs could be fine...but there are plenty of safe insect feeders available for dragons..maybe not as easy to get as crickets, especially if you are feeding huge amounts of babies... but if the cricket stock is likely to be low come spring...best to reduce number of animals one plans to breed.

Worse comes to worse, breeders end up not having many babies to sell next season...and demand may outweigh supply but that is far better than having a whole lot of starving baby dragons and unable to get in enough crickets or other feeder insects to feed them all.

Myself I don't breed bearded dragons...there just isn't any real point in doing so. I don't own any fancy morph dragons and those that seem to be the 'in' morph I am not all that fond off (ie transluscents) so I have no desire to own one, much less breed them. Also, I really do not have the space nor time to care for 20 baby bearded dragons..much less 100's. I am quite happy with my single female...she's enough trouble with her infertile egg laying (and given she tends to lay over 100 eggs total...I am glad she's not producing fertile eggs).

To enjoy the experience of breeding, I used crested geckos...I have since gotten out of crested geckos but they are fun to breed, easy to care for and hatching eggs and baby rearing is very easy...and numbers are far more manageable and less space demanding even with several females. Typical crested gecko may lay 6-10 eggs per season...with 8 being about average. They could lay as much as 12, but with only two eggs per clutch...its easy to cycle females out of egg production after 3-6 months of egg laying. Having 6-12 babies to care for in an entire season for a single gecko is far easier and less costly than 15-30 from a single dragon clutch to as much as 180.

So yeah, definitely anybody planning to breed dragons for the coming season should prepare for shortages of feeder insects. Either by breeding alternative insects, reducing number of animals bred etc...just to play it safe.
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PHLdyPayne

Forum Princess

I knew I should have added that....where I live, neither myself or neighbors use anything on our lawns or gardens.No chemicals at all,I wouldn't use them and I know my neighbors do nothing to their lawns either. I guess in some areas it's very popular to have the weed-free lawn.

Yeah, if you know for certain chemicals are not used on or nearby your own lawn, the worms aren't likely to have come in contact with any toxins. Unless they are used in flower beds or gardens. But wanted to bring it up as others reading may not consider it if the decided to use worms from their lawns etc.
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PHLdyPayne

Forum Princess

I know, and I appreciate it. I should have added that point to begin with. Your answers always include every aspect of what might be of concern on any subject or question posed....showing your great mental limberness to make up for those of us that can't remember to include the fine points, or even more than one point at a time LOL ! You deserve a raise for all your hard work keeping on top of everything.

Thanks I have been bugging for a raise for years...but all they do is multiply my current salary...unfortunately when its '$0' multiplying it by 5 just results in more zeroes LOL.
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PHLdyPayne

Forum Princess

Are you guys really sure that by next spring crickets will be unavailable because of the cricket virus?

The only thing I am sure about is that the government will take taxes from my paycheck.

There will most likely be crickets in the spring from some suppliers. But, there are already significantly less suppliers so I am sure there will be major shortages. If you have a good supplier, make sure he/she loves you so your orders get filled when others will not.

Blame corporatism not capitalism. The reason we are failing is because we haven't give capitalism a try. There are special interest groups, lobyists, in D.C. who bail out big corporations. They pay big money for campaigns, etc... And then usually it's the poorer people that suffer.

Anyway, we have a good supplier here in California and everyone around here seem to be switching over to them. Pet stores beg to be on their customer list...a lot of them get rejected because they have such big orders to fill.

Who's the supplier?

I'm not exactly sure. All I heard was "cricket farm"....

Then how do you know they are in California? There is all kinds of cross shipping and buy/selling going on right now to cover up problems.

Right now there is no shortage of crickets or other bugs because we are in the off season. Volume right now is maybe about 25% of what it is in the spring. The shortage will be evident when the spring arrives.

My supplier in MA is excellent and I have had no problems with any crickets or availability thus far.

No, they say it was in California....

I'd be real skeptical if know one knows the name or is telling the name of the supplier. Before this whole virus debacle suppliers used to advertise and promote their name and brand. Now many suppliers are hiding where the crickets are coming from. In my opinion this is not good for the customer of the industry.

Crickets suppliers with problems should not be hiding or misleading. They should be banding together with their piers and customers to find a solution or alternative.

No way to know for sure how this virus will affect stocks 8 months down the road...however, if it does run through the suppliers, there will be a shortage. There is no harm in preparing for shortages..far better to end up with a surplus and not need it, then need alot and find out there is a shortage.

Isn't Ghann's Cricket Farm in California?
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PHLdyPayne

Forum Princess

Ghann's is in Augusta Georgia. They have crickets up to 1/2 inch for sale but none larger. They were featured on a program called " dirty jobs" a while back. It was really interesting...that was back when they still had large crix as well.

Yeah I saw that episode...couldn't remember where they were located. Thought the show was pretty good though. When they put all the pinhead crickets in that specially measures tube and dumped them over the clean tray full of food...thought it was really cool how it sort of slowly spread out, a literal living spread of creatures...like slow molasses.

Have to admit though...not surprised viruses can spread fast, since they don't really clean their stuff there...I don't consider hosing down trays as 'cleaning' more like rinsing...unless they do more with cleaning than I remember the show talking about.
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PHLdyPayne

Forum Princess

Yes they are in GA. They won't admit it but they have been effected for some time.

Yes, I believe they have been and it really ticks me off that they lied about it all along. I have had the worse time with their crickets dying since all of this mess started. Fortunately I found a good backup but I am paying more than twice what I had to pay before.

I just can't remember the name of it.... That's all! [chuckle] lol

Im breeding my own and they are all well.

Steven Barnes

I'm still buying crickets now with no issues from my supplier and have no issues with keeping them here long term. But, eventually the virus will infect all of the crickets in the US. Most likely within the next 6 months or so. The cricket companies may not say it now but they know it as well. Your home and mine will not be immune to a virus long term regardless of our best efforts.

One of the reasons I started breeding superworms was to limit my risk of bringing the virus here.

The California breeders are starting to produce crickets again. Just not enough to start shipping bulk. Things will turn around. I have been very happy with the crickets I have been getting from Premium Crickets.
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www.moonstonedragons.com

I've been told that other feeders can spread the disease as well...even though it won't effect them..so if you are breeding your own crickets, but bring in a box of superworms that was exposed to the virus, you can in turn get the virus and wipe out your colony of crickets. True?? If true, can the animals themselves spread the virus as well?

Probably the most honest supplier in all this is Top Hat in Michigan. They feel they got the virus from an order of worms from CA. Top Hat has tried unsuccessfully to restart their operation and for now are just in a holding pattern. They were one of the largest producers. Lucky Lure in FL went out of business while trying to restart after consulting with the scientific community.

I think some of the suppliers in CA are still trying to restart but are experiencing the same problems. They are buy/selling and selling other bugs to stay afloat. If they had come up with a cure they would not keep it a secret. I and many others will not buy anything from them because of the risk of permanently contaminating my cricket environment.

Europe experienced this same virus 8 years ago and there are only sporatic house crickets available today. If they could, Europe would breed house crickets again in quantity as they did in the past. The other species of crickets they currently breed all have downsides over the house cricket.

Humans get viruses like the flu, common cold etc. We have never been able to eradicate human viruses so it is unlikely we will be able to eradicate a cricket virus. If we're lucky some time in the future maybe some enterprising person will discover a group of breeder house crickets that are resistant to this virus.

We can only hope for the best as far as other feeder options for the future. Hopefully the Dept. of Agriculture will allow another species of cricket to be commercially breed here.

there are plenty of native crickets to the US and Canada that may be suitable to replace the crickets commonly used as feeders, should the worse come to pass.

It is very difficult to eliminate viruses as many have long gestation periods and can go dormant in conditions not suitable for the virus to replicate. That and viruses can and do mutate..so something that would kill off a particular virus won't work on the mutation. Hence why we have so many different variants of influenza (flu virus).

Viruses certainly can piggy back on other insects or even packing material and infect other populations that way. How long the virus can stay outside its host, would certainly determined how quickly it can spread. Airborne viruses are the toughest to prevent...but contact viruses are be prevented alot easier (meticulous hygiene/quarantine measures will stop the spread) Then there is the possibility commercial food sources for crickets could carry the virus if contaminated. I have no idea what sterilization methods are used to prepare and package your typical dry cricket food.

Knowning more on how this virus spreads will certainly make it easier to prevent contamination.
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PHLdyPayne

Forum Princess