Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does this look like a black milk to anyone here? I swear it has MBK written all over it but I could be totally wrong. Any thoughts are very appreciated. It is being labeled as a black milk in the ad.

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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

Yeah, it's hard to tell exactly how big it is there with nothing to scale it by, because that would also help alot. But it's very solid coloration at what looks to be not that big, and it's head being very distinct from it's neck too pretty much leads me to think it is also probably a nigrita, or maybe even a melanistic thayeri, but that is far more doubtful than it being a much more common in the hobby MBK..LOL!. If I could see the skin between the scales, it would be instantly known what it is. Nigrita have dark skin between their scales, and gaigeae have light colored skin between theirs, and are also blacker as well. When they are by themselves, it isn't as evident that the MBK is actually a very dark brown as opposed to the jet-black of gaigeae, as well as the very indistinct head compared to the neck.

If it was in my hand, it would be easy, but it "looks" to me more like an MBK from here to me too.

Looks like this MBK I had a couple years ago to me!

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I am totally with you in being able to tell which it is if I could see the skin or actually hold it. But all they have is this pic in the ad and there is reason for doubt with the sellers history from what I have found. I actually am not the one this is for, it's for the guy I sold my adult male black milk to. He emailed me and said he was getting a female for the one I sold him and I remembered the only recent ad I have seen for a female black milk had the picture I posted in this and I thought something was not right. The head to me totally looks MBK as well! My fiance had an MBK for a while so I recall some subtle differences being the case apart from the more obvious skin color under the scales and color bands from younger milks still being visible. And another thing that made me think this one was not a black milk is the that the tail looks way to long and skinny! All of my blacks have stout looking tails. But I wanted to garner some opinions based on that pic alone to see if I was off base in my thoughts here. Looks so far that I was right though and they are trying to sell an MBK as a black milk. The info supplied so far is that it's 3 feet long and 2 years of age. I personally have a 2 year old black milk that is 4 feet long and has slight color markings very faintly visible even in pics, so things seemed really weird with this one here.
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

Man, I could not agree with you more on that Marcus!....being that small and young, there is no way it would be that solid now!

Yeah, I would definitely tell your friend to go elsewhere like you were also thinking man. There ain't noo way it could be that small and young and look like it does, not to mention the head and tail shape we can make-out from this distance.

Red flags all over that one man!

regards, ~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Right on thanks Doug!! The ad is on this site so I wonder if I should say somethin ya know. My buddy is definitely stayin away from that seller now!!
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

Yeah, I am not sure how that works here, because anyone can sell anything they want, no matter HOW misrepresented it is. Heck, sadly this happens on a freakin daily basis..LOL!

Yeah, that is up to you I guess, but I wouldn't touch that snake with a ten foot pole for SURE!

I have on occasion emailed people and told them the snake they have advertised is something totally different, and they are out of their mind..LOL!

But I don't know if KS can do anything about it at all, because the TOS are sort of tip-toey regarding this as you would imagine, but nothing says you can't email dude and tell him..."HUHH????" what gives with the freakin MBK DUDE!!??"..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Well, I dont really feel like creating a stink off with those people so I guess I will leave it alone and be glad I was able to head off my friend from making the purchase! Too bad we cant flag ads here or something like that huh!
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

Yeah, I agree, that would be nice in theory, but as you could imagine, exactly who would be appointed to do the scutiny with the screening of all the misreprested animal's, and to exactly what degree would it be able to be done?..LOL!

That would be a full-time job and probably take an entire taxonomic commitee!..

regards, ~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

This raises an interesting question --

Does anyone know if significant MBK/black milk crossbreeding has ever gone on in the market? And does anyone know what the crossbred offspring would look like?
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Interesting indeed, wonder what the hatchlings would look like!
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

I have heard the subject come up before in the past, but I don't even want to THINK about it to be quite honest..LOL!

People in this hobby are continually trying to dream up so-called "cool" crosses and hybrids for their breeding projects, but I personally don't condone the practice at ALL, and for many good, logical reasons(well, to me anyway)

The king forum just got done with a typical "octagon" UFC championship fight over this stuff. Some of the "justifications" for doing this and diluting so many available genuine bloodlines in just about every imaginable type now is just plain insanity to me.

ARRRRGH!!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Yeah I feel you Douglas! Plus crossing these would not really do anything other than make...a black snake. Maybe the babies would look cool or trippy, but not for long once the milk genes start making it fade to black (yay metallica). These two species look like each other close enough in adulthood. Thus the reason for this thread I doubt we really need a middle sized black snake ha!

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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

Amen to all that!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I agree that there's no need to cross them. However, knowing what crossbred snakes look like might help people to avoid them if they appear on the market....
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

The trouble with that is, once they are produced, the babies WILL go into the market, and they can NEVER be taken back!!!.........EVER!!!. They only go onto make more undiscernible junk that nobody is sure about the lineage of!,.......and on and on and on and on, and on.................

Not just that scenario either,....ALL the stuff that is out there already!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Don't worry, I'm with ya on all that. I'm not talking about producing any. I'm just wondering if anybody else has already produced any -- and if so, what they looked like!
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Yeah, I understand you there. They probably haven't been done just yet, but they will be very soon I would guess.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Well, let's hope not. Or at least not too many of them, or not too soon. While I can see that some hybrids produce interesting babies, in general I don't see the point in it. And it would be a shame to pollute a gene pool out of simple ignorance!

"And it would be a shame to pollute a gene pool out of simple ignorance!"

Yes, I fully agree, AND of course just about every other type of genuine subspecific form of snakes in this hobby as well!

Simply a never-ending snowball is what it is

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Lets see, you want to see a PIC of something that doesnt exist so you can warn a bunch of people of the forum to avoid it?? UMMMM sounds like you should be doing more reading and less looking at pictures..... You dont have the education or the knowledge to understand what you are asking.....PATHETIC

Sorry Jeff, I'm not in the mood to feed the troll tonight. Have a pleasant evening!
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1.2 Peruvian rainbow boas (Amaru, Asiru, Kulipsa)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Chakar, Hari, Saksak)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.4.4 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Simply arent the best. Thread members have misidentified Milk snakes as Corn snakes and have not let it go! Its about education and simply put you dont have to have a PHD to post here....you can pretend to. ROFLMAO!!

My skills are so bad I cant even be a pretender
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

how some people just can't let things go... days or weeks or months later they continue to bring up the same old sh!t, taking the same cheap shots time and time again.

Why do you think that is Jeff?

Some thinly veiled need to feel superior? Perhaps an attempt to salve some wound? Perhaps to regain some credibility?

Give us your take on it Jeff.

I'd vote for MBK. It seems a tad brown and at two years of age it should be a little bigger if it was a black milk.

Yeah me thinks the same. My 08 BM is 4 feet long right now and that's on a fairly average once a week feeding schedule.
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

If someone were to show me that picture and simply ask "what is it" MBK would be my answer.

Not sure I qualify as "expert"... please disregard my post of moments ago.

Gerry

HAHA!! Ok it has been struck from the record
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

Same here!!! I think there are some shenanigans going on with the seller of this snake.
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

The head and tail are different than my Black Milk. I thought king snake right off until I read the question in your post.

>>Does this look like a black milk to anyone here? I swear it has MBK written all over it but I could be totally wrong. Any thoughts are very appreciated. It is being labeled as a black milk in the ad.
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>>~Markus
>>
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>>The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
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1.1 Pituophis lineaticollis lineaticollis
1.1 Black Pine
1.2 Still Water Hypos
0.0.1 Possibly stillwater x Red Bull
1.2 N. Pinesnake
1.0 Eastern Kings
1.1 Black Milksnake
0.0.1 Plains Garter
1.0 Chow Chow(2003 Papi)
0.1 Cat(Shug

Same with mine. Seems different to me as well. The seller is still saying its a black milk but I think they are taking my friend for a ride.

PS. I love that you have Chow Chows!! We have two in my family and they are awesome dogs!!!
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

Yea, I feel pretty strongly that is a king. I only have one Chow Chow, I don't know that I could deal with two stubborn dogs!

Keeping on topic, older pic of my male.

>>Same with mine. Seems different to me as well. The seller is still saying its a black milk but I think they are taking my friend for a ride.
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>>PS. I love that you have Chow Chows!! We have two in my family and they are awesome dogs!!!
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>>~Markus
>>
>>
>>The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

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1.1 Pituophis lineaticollis lineaticollis
1.1 Black Pine
1.2 Still Water Hypos
0.0.1 Possibly stillwater x Red Bull
1.2 N. Pinesnake
1.0 Eastern Kings
1.1 Black Milksnake
0.0.1 Plains Garter
1.0 Chow Chow(2003 Papi)
0.1 Cat(Shug

Wow I love his hair do!!!! Too funny!!!
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

Just those who know black milks and MBK's really well to be able to see a difference between them (in their all black stage of course)from just a picture.
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

I laughingly suggested someone sneak into a forum members place and swap his MBK and his black milk and see if he notices....LMAO. If you are buying a snake like this its on the sellers rep, buy from someone with a good one.

Haha that would be a good test!!! Yeah I told my friend I think it's in his best interest to pass on this particular ad. So many red flags by far.
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

HAHAA!,..I remember that one man!, that was funny as heck, and left me snickering just thinking about him doing it!

Wasn't it a guy that was "snake sitting" for a guy that was out of town, and he had both MBK and Black milks, and you suggested that he switches them before he got back to see if he ever noticed?...HAHAHAHAA!!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I remembered half way through the post and my comp is so slow I just left it there

Dude that friggin is great!!
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

I'm going to have to agree with everyone here (even gerryg, who has definitely seen enough gaiegeae to know what's what) that the animal pictured is a kingsnake. If you take a look at the seller's other ads, you'll find a dubious looking "Pueblan" as well... caveat emptor!

Nate

Thanks for the vote of confidence... pushing my luck here but I'd say that Pueblan has been touched a time or two by an amaura but that's no reason to say it looks dubious.

Check out this link... think I need to find out where to pick some up!

Gerry
Vietnamese Mossy Frog

Thanks for the input Nate!! I am happy my eyes were somewhat keen enough to detect something was off with that! And yes some of the other ads they have seem off as well so I just had that deep down feeling about them not being totally correct with what they are trying to sell
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

Easy now fellas.... You keep on doubting folks and I will send you all to the alterna forum..... hehe.

Boy!,..do I hear THAT!!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com