Reptile & Amphibian Forums

In regards to the earlier thread on the gaigae/MBK thing, here is a genuine "melanistic" thayeri another forum member posted in the king forum just recently. I mentioned earlier that even THIS "could" have been a small possibility.

Note the uncanny resemblence these also have to nigrita by their phenotype alone with no other color/pattern to otherwise go by unless scalation meristics are used.

These are a very interesting variety of thayeri, and I have always wondered why more are not seen in the hobby. After all, they are a very wild-type variation that can be produced in any given clutch a variable kings(thus the name).

I think it might have something to do with many breeders being more into the "flashier" colored varieties in more recent years, and also because many thayeri lineages have been diluted with other mexicana genepools too over the course of many years now too.

Anyway, I have ALWAYS thought that the "real-deal" melanistic thayeri were extremely cool!!

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Nice!!! That is awesome!!! So for jet black snakes, that would be the small, MBK medium, Black Milk large, Black Pines extra large, and Indigo's...extra extra large!

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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

Ok so where would you put black rats in that?
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BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

I'd put them on the semi jet black list between large and extra large
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

At least in the case of a melanistic thayeri the banding is still quite evident, rather difficult to pass it off as a pure nagrita or gaigeae.

Of course now that the "what if" scenario has been brought up those working with melanistic t's could now, unfairly, face skeptical questions. I do believe though that even those with a penchant for hybridizing will see there is nothing to be gained from a nagrita x gaigeae crossing and so all this will remain a moot point.

Gerry

Not all melanistic thayeri show this much pattern, i have had a few in the past that you had to really look for the pattern and most it was only seen in the shed. I have had all three black milks mbk's and melanistic thayeri.
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Michelle
www.AssortedSerpents.com
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful,
The Lord God made them all.

At the time I was writing that comment I debated as to whether or not I should qualify it with an "At least in the specimen you show and most I've seen"... but decided against it simply because... well... most I've seen have some noticeable banding.

In the future if I wonder "should I or shouldn't I" I will (hopefully, but questionable at my age) recall your post and go with "I should".

Gerry

I am glad you noticed the pattern some people don't.
the melanistic thayeri is still a mystery, I have heard some lines breed true but never seen it for myself, I have seen a few pop up from even the white line thayeri.
at one point some of the lines were said to be tampered with and had mbk influence. the melanistic gene normally tends to muddy up the thayeri background color, I personally love old school thayeri and the more earth tones. I had a melanistic male that passed away this year he was over 20 the best i could figure, he was solid black and you had to really get him in good sunlight or look at his shed to see pattern.
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Michelle
www.AssortedSerpents.com
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful,
The Lord God made them all.

Yeah my bad, I sure didnt!

(quote)
"I am glad you noticed the pattern some people don't"

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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

lol...my first one I had to get in bright sun light and it drove me insane to see if I seen a pattern and I still ended up waiting for a shed, I just could never get a viable clutch from him, every female he was ever bred to threw slugs and they were proven, i gave up and kept him as a pet.
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Michelle
www.AssortedSerpents.com
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful,
The Lord God made them all.

Wow!,....that's too bad nothing was ever able to be produced by him. I certainly know the feeling!

But HEY!, it could still happen one day though!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Unfortunately he passed away this year. He was over 20 the best I could figure. I did enjoy him though just as a pet.
I have a pair that have a fair amount of melanin in there skin, one is off of a melanistic mother and the other is just dark and from Vermiyla who knows maybe next year
I tend to like the black snakes mbk's being my favorite followed by the black pines and black milks. Not allowed black pines in MS so I just have to browse them on the internet. My black milks are just turning so they are in the muddy looking stage, it is neat to watch such a beautiful tricolor turn into a glossy black snake (not sure how pleasing this look is at them moment though)...lol
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Michelle
www.AssortedSerpents.com
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful,
The Lord God made them all.

What a shame that is. I just caught that in your earlier post when I read it.

LOL!, yes, when they are in their intermediate stages of ontogenesis, they certainly aren't quite as appealing as they are when much younger OR much older!..HAHAA!

I agree Michelle, solid black snakes have definite appeal!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com