Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Part 1, we talked about what tame meant, in general it meant, everyone has their own opinion.

Part 2, was about how temps effected behavior. Not much talking there???

Part 3, Understanding temps and reptiles.

For some reason, this topic baffles many reptile keepers, more importantly, monitor keepers. Got me, its very simple.
Many newbies, as well as old timers, do not understand that with reptiles, the cool temps are the important ones. Not the hot or basking temps. For sure, both are needed.

The ambient temps are the base of how a monitor(reptile) exsists, these temps allow the monitor to rest. That is, lower their metbolism and conserve energy, as well as sleep. Think of this, how would you sleep, after four cups of coffee?? Well, thats how your monitor sleeps when the temps are too high.

Some people get all upset because they picture some of my cages that have lites on 24/7. They somehow think the monitors cannot sleep. I bring that up because its very much the opposite. With those cages, I make sure, they can burrow, hide, escape, both lite and heat. They can sleep. Yet these same people install 250 watt infrared heat lamps or 250watt ceramic heat emmiters, and have them on at night. Its not lite that is torture, its high ambient temps thats torture. Kinda like leaving the throttle down on your car, sooner or later, its going to crash.

Monitors need cool temps to rest and conserve(60 to 75F) at all times of the year. These temps are the behavioral base at which your monitor will work from.

The higher temps are what reptiles use to accomplish tasks. There are no set temps(90 to over 150F) for this. They pick what is needed for the task/s at hand. Some of these tasks are, developing ovum/eggs, immune system, digesting food, replacing skin, growing, healing wounds, etc. To do these, they may use heat from minutes to hours. The amount of heat, depends on the task.

As an example, if givin a choice, monitors try to digest food items in the same time period(24hrs). If they consume small items, they pick lower temps, large food items will need higher temps. Both need to be digested in the same amount of time. Please try this experiment. Put a few mice in a bag and set them under the basking lite or any part of your monitors cage. Now watch what happens over the next 24 hours. With that in mind, think about why reptiles need to digest large food items quickly. You will also understand, why they barf up large food items if the temps are not hot enough.

I have recomended and use temps that cover the lows and the highs. In nature, they are exposed to temps that are both, above and below, the temps they need. Behavioraly they "know" how to work those temps. I find it easy to provide that range. That gives the monitors the ability to choose what is needed, at the time its needed. Not when I say or think its needed. Remember, both extremes can kill, heat doing that the best.

Many people confuse monitors(reptiles) with mammals. Mammals have difined bodytemps. They somehow think monitors only have two temps, low temps(off) and basking temps(on). This is not only wrong, but there is absolutely no need to do that.

I most likely am wrong, but those types of people must feel they know and must tell the animals what to do. I on the otherhand, feel the animals are "the" book and my job is to read the book. I try to ask(allow) them to pick what they want.

While all that sounds simple and in many ways it is, reptile behavior, human behavior, and the limitations of mechanics, always seem to get in the way. Your thoughts? F

PS, the pic is of one wall unit under construction. Old pic.

That was wonderfully stated, and in my opinion the absolutely most informative thread, ive ever read on any forum. I think everyone should emmedietly print it out and post it next to their beds!! I know I will.

Thank you Frank,
Michelle

p.s. Why the f*ck dont you publish this stuff!!!! Im drop dead SERIOUS.

Hey I just did publish it and you read it. What difference does it make if its here or in a mag.?

And no dropping dead, I am blamed for enough now.

I found this basking this mourning. Kinda fits what i was explaining. From the lite, you can tell its mourning, it rained for two days and the ground is wet and cold. So it has to surface to bask, once the ground heats back up, there will be no need to surface. F

Something with a nice hardbound cover that looks good on coffee tables. Why? ...because its a good idea! Thats why!

Hey, what kind of snake is that??

Masticophis flagellum piceus, perhaps?

It definitely looks like one, now try to catch it, hehe.

Is it does not matter what temps are provided if they don't use them. I could have the 75F-150F gradient, but it won't matter if the monitor never uses it. Providing the range is easy, providing the range in such a way that they use it, is slightly more challenging but still not very hard.

Of course with multiple monitors in an enclosure you have to suit it for each of the individuals, and make sure that parts of the gradient aren't monopolized by one or more lizards (everyone gets access).

--Robert

An amazing and informative thread. That was professionally done and very well thought out. I only hope that I can emulate those basic principles in my own workings. I have several "beginner" species of monitors and I find your techniques and approaches to work the best of any that I've come across. Congrats on the work and good luck on future endeavors.

Bill

I'm not trying to start anything here. Just curious. How did you come to the conclusion that 60-75 are the best ambient temps? 60 probably being the best since it gives them more options. How exactly did you do this? Air conditioning in the enclosure? I live in South Florida you live in Arizona. Those are usually hot states, most of the year. I have my enclosure in my garage. My ambient temps usually never drop below 80 -84. Should I bring my enclosure in and pump the A.C. up? Would it fit through the doors? Does it drop that low in their natural habitat?

Were your monitors doing better when you gave them the options of 60-75? Better feeding response? Better overall health? Better breeding results?Are those 247 ambients that youre using? Maybe you've always used that theory.I want to know how you accomplish this, your results and observations. I'm sure most here would want to know if its the best way to keep monitors. Thanks!

I have to ask, why do you think I should explain anything to you, in a post down below, you attack me, say weird crap, now you want me to what? I am sorry, I am only human.

One thing, temps are temps, there are not localities.

Oh by the way, the attack and apologise thing has been done many times. Like in real life, an apology only has meaning, if the person really meant it and follows thru with it. F

literally or figuritavely? You posted the 3rd chapter of your forum monitor basics book. I read it and found it interesting, since not much emphasis is placed on ambient temps. You emphasized a 60 -75 ambient.And I was asking specifics, since youre very familiar with the subject. I asked you hoping you would answer and shed some light on this subject,but youre never specific, vague most of the time IMO. Let me ask you this. If I were someone else would you answer those questions?

I dont think I'm attacking and apologising to you. And please don't play the victim here, as you have attacked plenty! I recall just recently you calling Mark Bayless a little old lady and implying he was a worthless librarian and laughing your butt off. You really contradict yourself.Like the saying....Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.

You said this, "Who told you about WARAN? Didn't you think for yourself after "IT was told to you"? Remember Mr. Frank THINK, THINK, THINK. And speak as if in your writing in olde english. ole pious and your highness, for do not think that which one can not speak through is so commonly available" you know, if you would bother to actually think about what I said, you would have seen this, "This is how it was explained to me". If you think I go about, clarifying all things in life, then you are mistaken. For the sake of this forum and me, I am only concerned with actual captive monitors. And more directly, my monitors. If I accidently have something that may be of benefit to others, those others should realize, they ought to be nice if they want help.

And while, what you said is not so bad, I have the right to speak to whom I want to speak(type) too. I have no obligation to inform you of anything. I have said many times, I will help whom I want to help and that only includes those who want help, not want to play silly games. Its very easy to play silly games on the internet, as you can be anybody you want to be.

As for Mark, yes I attacked him, so what. But the difference is, I did not follow an attack by asking him for help. Use common sense man!

As I have said, I respond to nice posts, nicely, I also respond to agressive posts or dorkwad posts, agressively and dorkwadidly, hahahahahaha. I really have no problem with that. Again for Mark, he as lied about me, been agressive to me, and otherwise a total zero, since day one. I am merely responding to his approach. As to why he did that, I could careless. With him, I am being a counterpuncher.

I was very lucky, when I started with monitors, two fellas, a vet from canada(i wish i could remember his name) and Dennis King, author of Goannas, they sent me lots of literature and references about monitors. They also both visited me. They both send me information pertaining to my interests and approach. Not about things that do not relate. Both nice generous people. Now, you have to ask Mark why he never visited, he was invited for the first two years of his attacks, now the invitation no longer stands.

About being vague, has the thought entered you mind that I may be vague for a reason. In this case, being vague is because it "is" vague. There is no, one successful temp. There is a vague range of temps that can be used a thousand different ways. Actually most aspects of husbandry are very vague, thanks for bringing that up.

Now about you, maybe next time you want to fight, you will pick someone of no value to you. That way, you will not be burning bridges. F

As always, you're copping out of the specifics. If you did something to get ambients of 60 for example fans, ac, etc. That is specific. If after using ambients of 60 you notice something benefical with your monitors, then that is specific. Just like asking someone how to put in insulation in their enclosure, why they use it and so on. I dont care anymore.

As for the comment I made to you its harmless. I had a few beers in me that night and I always find your rythym funny(a bit shakespearish), and went off on you a bit. No big deal. As far as burning bridges, I could care less about incenerating the bridge to you. Actually I'd pour some more gas on it.There are people here that that help others,including me more consistently than you. They are specific and informative.Ok enough of this....I have some boa enclosures to finish.

I'm thinking of putting some ac units in them