Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So I've tried feeding my snake live.. She did eat one but then killed another and then left it. I don't really know what else to try, so soon I will take her to the vet to make sure she doesn't have any parasites and if she gets a clean bill, I don't know what to do. I am renting the house I live at, in northern IN.. This means that I can't really do any "renovations" as far as heating.. And since I live where I live, putting her in the garage is out of the question because it will get way too cold. It's been in the low 30s at night and is only going to get colder. Any advice? I don't want her to starve this winter because it's not cold enough for her to brumate but there's no way for me to get her to eat.

What type of snake? How big? You say you're renting the house. The whole house? Do you have access to a cool spot in the basement? The attic? Any cool spots say near a window? Someplace the would hold temps around /- 55*F? Will she fit in a plastic shoebox? A sweatertub?

For expample in my house my basement stays pretty cool for brumating. I put my smaller colubrids in sterile/rubbermaid shoeboxes with a small water bowl and a hide and keep them on aspen bedding deep enough for them to burrow in. After being sure they've had time in the warmth to finish digesting their last meal I tuck them in a cool corner of the basement and check on them weekly, check for temps around 50-55*.

My larger colubrids go into 15-30 qt. plastic tubs with a similar setup.

I'm sure other besides myself would love to help. Having more information about your situation helps us help you. So if you could provide more details about your situation we can better guide you through winter.
-----
BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

Good question. You're probably not the first one here to have such a dilemna. I myself am in a similar situation. I have had some experiences lately that may be somewhat telling.

One of my Northern Pines went off feed and just hung out in the back of the closet for 117 days, rarely coming out for a drink, although I made several attempts to feed here. The temps there probably averaged around 63-70F most of that time during the warm season. She finally shed, then went back on feed, eating like a pig for 24 days, before laying down a scent trail, which was obvious by the reaction of some of the males, and utlimately mated ate one more meal, shed, then layed a clutch of 10 healthy eggs.

This suggests a couple things to me.
1. The self-imposed, "off season" brumation was very likely a result of messed up seasonality due to captive conditions.
2. Temps don't have to be all that low, just low enough to slow metabolism - she lost weight but never got skinny.

So, maybe the lowest coolest spot in the house will be sufficient if dark and free of disturbance.

Here is here SerpenTrack record for that period. Unfortunately I didn't weigh here regularly during that time ...oh well.

-----
See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Apparently we all have similar situations...I myself rent a 3 BR house with my fiance. She has let me dedicate one of the rooms to my snakes, but hibernating these guys is tough. I usually can't get temps in the room less than 58 degrees. In order to do this I have to keep the door shut, tape stuff over the air vents, and keep the window cracked. The fiance isn't to happy about keeping windows open in the middle of the winter either. Anyways, I was not able to get my pines to breed this year and am hoping that maybe next year I will be lucky enough to. I'm not sure if maybe it just hasn't gotten cold enough or what.

brumation tubs

Kings. One of two trios of 08's in brumation. I put their familiar moss hides in with them, and their water bowls. They do get frisky so I put the water bowls in pans of moss to prevent water getting slopped around.

Bulls last year in brumation tub. In the warm season they live in a big screen cage.
Last year I brumated my 2009 bulls when they stopped eating, as the male began to lose weight. This year I am brumating nearly all my snakes, except the 2010 pyro hatchlings and a couple of Pacific gopher subadults who are still wanting to eat.
I put my brumation tubs in the coldest place in my bedroom of my small two room cabin, and wrap them in quilts to maintain the temperature at 50 to 55 degrees all winter. If it gets too cold I open the quilts to let the ambient air warm it up a tad. If it is really a bone chilling hard freeze I can turn on the UTHs which are plugged in but usually stay off for the winter. All this is monitored by indoor outdoor thermometers I can easily read just by looking at the quilts.
I live at 3200 ft elevation on the west slope of the Sierra Nevada foothills. I does get cold here, although not as bad as the Midwest. You should be able to find a closet or some such in the house that will work. Go around with an infrared thermometer and take readings.
You know what they say in the Midwest, there is nothing but a barb wire fence between us and the Arctic circle! LOL!
As I do this post I am just now getting the fire going; it is chilly on the floor in my bedroom, only 52 F! It is actually warmer in the snake tubs, at 55 F. I maybe should just crawl in with my snakes for the winter! LOL!
-----
Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

I should have added: I bring them out of brumation in February. Everybody is then very wiling to eat.
-----
Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

Sorry, I had posted previously about my snake refusing to eat and figured everyone had seen it haha. She is a gopher snake, probably 3-4 feet. Yes, I'm renting the whole house(my mom is really) - there are vents or heating in every room, including the basement. The basement consists of a "front room", which is my living space. It has two computers, an xbox and a tv.. At night it has been dropping down to the high 60s but rises to low to mid 70s when we wake up(body heat, computer heat, etc.). There is a spare basement room which I was thinking of using for brumation but it also has a vent which heat comes out of. The vents in the basement are very old, they don't have a little wheel you can use to open or close it. There is also the laundry / storage room. That part of the basement is unfinished, but with the dryer and furnace being there I have no hopes for temperature. Moved my digital thermometer around and these are the temps I came up with - 69 - 70 for spare room. I can crack the window open but my mom would probably kill me for that eventually.. Would cause one heck of a gas bill. Same temp for unfinished part of basement, and neither the furnace or the dryer are on right now. Is high 60s low enough to brumate?

You can try those temps and see. Weigh your gopher snake and record her weight once a week. If she maintains her weight you are doing fine at mid 60's F. The whole idea about brumation is that snakes, being ectothermic, will experience faster metabolism at higher temps, and lose weight if not feeding, where as mammals being endothermic need more calories during lower temps, the opposite. A thing that might help is to put a cool pack (one of those freezer packs) wrapped in a towel in her tub, and insulate the whole tub with a quilt. This way you can drop the temp inside the tub to the mid 50's. You will have to probably once a day have do a fresh ice pack. Put an indoor outdoor thermometer with the outdoor probe inside the tub and the indoor part on top of the tub for easy monitoring without having to open the enclosed space anymore than necessary.
-----
Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

My guess is that high 60s would slow the metabolism enough endure 90 days or so of "off-feed" but may not satisfy the snakes instinct to seek a cooler location and so it might remain active which of course burns calories. It might also never "feel" brumated and so turn back on to feeding.

BUT, I'll bet that, if you put it in the coolest spot (with some water) and it doesn't beat itself up trying to get out, eventually it will turn back on. As I've shown you, they can go for long periods off-feed and be fine. In the case of my Honduran Milk, 176 days and with a little weight loss but he's just fine now and eating well!
-----
See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Buy a wine fridge and turn it down to 52, easy as that.
-----
6.7 pituophis c. annectans
1.1 senticolis t. intermedia
1.1 rhinechis scalaris
1.2 lampropeltis m. thayeri
2.1 pantherophis g. guttatus
1.1 lampropeltis t. campbelli

1.1 pituophis x pantherophis
1.1 lampropeltis campbelli x thayeri x nelsoni

Buy a wine fridge and turn it down to 52, easy as that.
Yes that is exactly what I would do if I were on the grid instead of generator and battery banks. Just don't have enough electricity to power this device all night...darn!
-----
Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

Most of the affordable "coolers" (those less than $500) are fairly small. Unless I devised some fairly flat containers, couldn't get my six snakes into one of them. Otherwise, great idea, the options for seasonal brumation in southern Arizona are otherwise very limited.