Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So I have been into reptiles for many years and have gained a nice collection that helps with my educational presentations. I do about 100 presentations a year to schools and other organizations teaching them about reptiles. I absolutly love the balls that I have in my collection and I am just now playing with the idea of breeding.

This is my fear. Is there enough buyers out there? I mean every show i go to, it seems everyone is producing BP's The market seems flooded by them. My fear is that once i produce some nice animals I wont be able to sell them? Is the market that big? Are we producing to many?

And just so you know I am not in it for the money. I Love Reptiles Period. They are majestic and beautiful and probably like most of you there was something there that sucked me into them. I want to breed and keep becasue I enjoy it. Its fun for me. The feeling of hatching out some babies and caring for them. giving life....gets my heart going.

So Should I be worried? Should I go and just do what I want to do? Or should I just be happy to own the animals that I do?

This is my pair of albinos that I would like to breed when they are ready. My ultimate dream is to produce Albino pieds....Like the post below. Or the lavender albino pied....there is nothing better than a nice Dreamsicle. (my opinion: most of these new morphs are starting to look to similar)

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Scott
"The most powerful person never has to use it"

as long as there is a demand...they will sell and people will buy.

if you love reptiles so much why are you even worried about selling....why not just give them away as pets?

Pitoon

>>So I have been into reptiles for many years and have gained a nice collection that helps with my educational presentations. I do about 100 presentations a year to schools and other organizations teaching them about reptiles. I absolutly love the balls that I have in my collection and I am just now playing with the idea of breeding.
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>>This is my fear. Is there enough buyers out there? I mean every show i go to, it seems everyone is producing BP's The market seems flooded by them. My fear is that once i produce some nice animals I wont be able to sell them? Is the market that big? Are we producing to many?
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>>And just so you know I am not in it for the money. I Love Reptiles Period. They are majestic and beautiful and probably like most of you there was something there that sucked me into them. I want to breed and keep becasue I enjoy it. Its fun for me. The feeling of hatching out some babies and caring for them. giving life....gets my heart going.
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>>So Should I be worried? Should I go and just do what I want to do? Or should I just be happy to own the animals that I do?
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>>This is my pair of albinos that I would like to breed when they are ready. My ultimate dream is to produce Albino pieds....Like the post below. Or the lavender albino pied....there is nothing better than a nice Dreamsicle. (my opinion: most of these new morphs are starting to look to similar)
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>>Scott
>>"The most powerful person never has to use it"
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Homepage
My BLOG
2010 European Shows

But is the demand that great? Do you sell? and how fast do you turn over you animals?

Great question.....If i could save all the animals I produce I would. Dont have alot of room as of now for adults. And I would give them away to friends and family and I am sure giving away albino's would be something anyone would jump on. (interested?) But to make a couple extra dollars doing something i enjoy would be great! But I also dont plan on producing maybe one or two cluthes a year. So i dont plan on paying off my home anytime soon. Just making the point that i am not in this to make a buck, but more for the enjoyment of taking my husbandry to the next level. I alos made that point becasue i see poeple prodicing a ton of aniamls and getting into balls just to make a buck

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Scott
"The most powerful person never has to use it"

I'm with you,. I've been tossing around breeding for 6 months and finally decided to this year... i had nothing breedable this year but I began expanding my collection. I've tossed around the idea of giving SOME of mine away to friends and family. I also know that whatever money is made selling my BP's... will go into the care of my collection and expanding my collection and used SOLELY for that. I'm not looking to make money but I'm not looking to lose money every year either. Breaking even every once in a while would be nice. But if it doesn't happen, I'll go on LOVING my snakes and loving what I'm doing.
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Teresa
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3.0 Dogs (2.0 Chihuahuas, 1.0 Toy Poodle)
1.5 Cats
1.0 Cockatiel
1.0 Indonesian Blue tongue skink

Ball Pythons
0.1 100% Het Albino (Watson)
1.0 Pastel (Sweets)
0.1 Spider (Daisy)
1.0 Albino (Gormagon)
1.0 Lesser (Wendell)

Exactly my feelings.....It is just the next step in loving the animals that we do. And quite frankly there are way to many poeple producing them anyway for me to even compete with. I know a colubrid breeder thaat has been doing it longer than i have been alive and he is now into doing balls becasue like he said that is where the money is.....I dont agree that is the right reason to be doing it.

I mean go look at any craigslist and search for BP's and see how many pop up, sad really....at least here it is
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Scott
"The most powerful person never has to use it"

ive been wanting a albino ball, pass one this way.

somethings to keep in mind about breeding ball pythons is the fact that the females take so long to mature, and on top of that they usually have small clutches with about 6-7 eggs being average.

most all of these combos you see now have taken breeders years to create. everyone has to start at the bottom and work their way up. even if you have cash to buy, it will be hard to buy an adult proven female especially if it's a morph in demand. if you buy a hatchling...you play the waiting game for it to grow up.

just remember every item for sale has a potential buyer....now it's up to you to find that buyer. sometimes you're lucky and the buyer comes to you.

i personally have sold every snake that i wanted to sell. even ones i wanted to hold back for myself. sometimes they move fast....sometimes they move slow.....but they move and that's all that matters.

Pitoon

>>But is the demand that great? Do you sell? and how fast do you turn over you animals?
>>
>>Great question.....If i could save all the animals I produce I would. Dont have alot of room as of now for adults. And I would give them away to friends and family and I am sure giving away albino's would be something anyone would jump on. (interested?) But to make a couple extra dollars doing something i enjoy would be great! But I also dont plan on producing maybe one or two cluthes a year. So i dont plan on paying off my home anytime soon. Just making the point that i am not in this to make a buck, but more for the enjoyment of taking my husbandry to the next level. I alos made that point becasue i see poeple prodicing a ton of aniamls and getting into balls just to make a buck
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>>-----
>>Scott
>>"The most powerful person never has to use it"
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Homepage
My BLOG
2010 European Shows

Thank you for the advice. I am well read on what is to be expected and all the things that go along with breeding. I am nto just jumping into it. I have been keep reptiles for 15 years now and know what i have to do and what the aniamls need. I just havent taken that step becasue of my fears of letting them go or not being able to sell them. As it stands right now I have plenty of space for babies for many month and juviniels for that matter. its the adult space that I could run out of very quickly.

Thank you to all for the advice.....i am very appreciative
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Scott
"The most powerful person never has to use it"

If you want to breed them for yourself and the love the animals you should do it. There are tons of people trying to sell BP's - and every other snake for that matter, but it you're not worried about the money you can always donate them or wholesale them.

best.

byron.d

This is our first year breeding our stock as well. We discussed at length what we want to do with the young. We came up with several rules for ourselves regarding the keeping or selling of babies:
- Only breed for high quality, high demand young. No random normal females paired up with 1 gene males unless we want the babies for ourselves.

- Only allow pairings that will produce babies that can veritably sell themselves. For instance, there are already buyers for the babies before the mating occurs.

- We must be prepared to keep all of the babies if necessary.

- The primary reason for charging money for a baby is to insure it goes to a good home. So we probably won't be selling any $15 normals (if we get any). We also intend to provide 2-3 page care sheets which will accompany each purchase. We might even personally check that the buyer has a proper set-up for it.

- Those close to us get first dibs on a baby, even if they are under-paying for it, because our friends and family have supported our (arguably) strange hobby with enthusiasm.

Some of these we designed for ourselves, but many of these were borrowed from the best breeders in both the reptile business and other excellent exotic animal breeders. By following these we hope to maximize our happiness, our customers' happiness, and improve the quality of animals available for purchase.
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.0 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

Now that is a great list of standards that this hobby should avide by.

I will defitly be keeping that and putting that to use in my future.

Thank you,
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Scott
"The most powerful person never has to use it"

Yes, that is a solid approach. Definitely work with a morph/mutation that YOU like.

That said, everybody likes Albinos, Pieds, and apparently Clowns. Het pairs on those are not pricey, and purchased from a reputable breeder, a great choice.

When you are ready to sell, consider yourself in competition. Your message, yours ads, your photos, your phone calls, your husbandry skills, your animals, your complete package, they all play a part in winning the business of your customer.

You are competing with PE, with RDR, NERD, VPI, Marc Bailey, Dan Wolfe, LLL, BHB, every other reptile breeder, dealer, and every other reptile hobbyist out there. Oh, and every scumbag disposable animal sheister as well. Yep, you compete with them as well.

We work very hard every day to present the best possible image, and offer the best possible animal/product. And not at the lowest price. And in nearly 20 years, we have developed a terrific reputation.

That is going to be your job, and it isn't always easy : )

But it is totally achievable. Totally!

In the meantime, there will be 200 fly-by-nighters come and gone. Maintain excellent standards and stay the course, stay focused, and you can absolutely do it.

Best of luck.
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robyn@proexotics.com

ShipYourReptiles.com
Pro Exotics Reptiles

In competition with you guys? BHB? NERD? RALPH? I give up on those alone....haha

I have built a great educational product. I give my animals the best care even when i really cant afford it (new ARS and animal plastics rack.

I love my animals and love working with certain groups. and dont work with others just becasue i know what i like and I will stick to that...it gives me the passion to move forward.

Thank you for the advice. Word to live by as well.

WWW.ReptilesRevealed.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/ReptilesRevealed
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Scott
"The most powerful person never has to use it"

Passion provides a solid inspirational base, for sure.

As for competition, you do indeed have to compete with everyone in the market, and sell your customer on why you are the best choice for him or her. There are many types of customers, including any number that will be looking for what YOU choose to provide. You still have to stand out, and create confidence in that customer : )
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robyn@proexotics.com

ShipYourReptiles.com
Pro Exotics Reptiles

Thank you so much for the info. It is not falling on def ears that is for sure.
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Scott
"The most powerful person never has to use it"

n/p

The ball python market is a bit gutted...but the fact everybody is selling them and continuing to do so indicates there is still a demand for these snakes.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to breed, especially an animal you enjoy keeping. Ball pythons don't have huge clutches so breeding one or two females will not likely bury you with babies. However if you are not sure of the demand for albinos or albino crosses (ie albino het pieds or whatever you are hoping to produce in first generation), then just produce one litter, two at the most. But also be prepared to house and care for them till sold..which could be as long as 6 months.

Know what your competition produces...if there are tons of breeders in your area selling albinos then you may not get many sales...unless your albinos are truly spectacular and at a great price (free albinos would make anybody happy to get...but I don't recommend giving morphs away free..unless you have no choice).

I produce small numbers of animals myself...and did sell all the babies...but it wasn't easy at times, others it was 'buy the whole lot' easy. I didn't get a table at any of the reptile shows near me as i never had enough animals to make it worth it so just sold locally. But more and more people want healthy animals as well as the best price they can get.
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PHLdyPayne

Forum Princess

Also it would be so neat to have babies to do some trades. I am just excited to have them to barter for other fun/beautiful morphs!! The fact that you are doing it because you love the snakes is a great thing!! It is funny how each one has a different personality.

HA yes. With the 40 snakes I have and different species. each one has a different personality that is for sure.
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Scott
"The most powerful person never has to use it"