Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey - i am really interested in seeing some pics of Ruthveni - also, does anyone know what the heck the difference is between Ruthveni and Jalisco milk --- are they the same?!

No, they aren't the same thing at all. Years ago, ruthveni was classified as L.mexicana ruthveni, and now is classified as it's own distinct species (L. ruthveni). Along while back, there were some ruthveni kings that were mistakingly marketed and sold as Jalisco milksnakes(L.triangulum arcifera). Since then, it has been well-established that those ruthveni were nothing close to actually being genuine arcifera, although they did originate from the same area as true arcifera.

They have a very different build than each other too, with arcifera(Jalisco milks) being more slender-built with a less distinct head from the neck, and true arcifera have much wider black rings that tend to arch over substantially dorsally, which is the reason they have the scientific latin name "arcifera" wich literally means "arch-bearing".

The so-called "Lake Chapala" milksnakes are the true Jalisco milksnakes in the hobby, and they are like night and day compared to ruthveni(Queretaro kingsnakes) from the region of Quueretaro, Mexico).

Here is a genuine "Lake Chapala" arcifera that Shannon Brown used to work with. They originated from Bob Applegate import stock.

regards, ~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

does anyone know if they were crossed before people realized 'hobby' arcifera were ruthveni?

because i've seen pics, that were claiming to be arcifera, that looked intermediate between tapalpa ruthveni and lake chapala arcifera.

>>does anyone know if they were crossed before people realized 'hobby' arcifera were ruthveni?
>>
>>because i've seen pics, that were claiming to be arcifera, that looked intermediate between tapalpa ruthveni and lake chapala arcifera.

Yes they were.....
Much like the Jalpan Ruthveni....Some thought they were L. m. mexicana and some thought they were L. t. smithi.....These Ruthveni were both mislabeled and bred and sold......But not all of them.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I have always thought that had to be the case with a percentage at least. It only seems logical that this has happened in the past to me too really.

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Some of these are here on loan from Shannon Brown, but some are mine as well.....

-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

thanks folks for the discussion - and thanks John for those awesome pics!