Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm starting to get into kingsnake morphs and plan to have some really nice clutches next year from the Isis Reptiles stock and I've also got a nice whitewall brooksi male and female from another line, plus some lavender albino brooksi. I also got a beautiful mosaic from Rainer! Anyway, Im not clear on how the pairing should go, alot of them are het for hypo, het for whitewall, het for axanthic, het for albino. If I breed a whitewall to a whitewall, how many whitewall babies should I expect and will the rest be hets? What if I breed a het to a het? What will the normal young be classified as? I never really got into how all that works but I think its probably time to get a better understanding of it and who better to ask than the real experts......Thanks in advance guys, ya'll keep this forum awesome!
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Dustin Smith

Punnet Squares will really help when looking at crosses.
Take for example:
AA-dominant "normal phase"
aa-recessive "albino (or whatever special phase you want)
Aa-phenotype is "normal", but carries gene for "special"

so if you have a "normal" X a special, you get all hets

A A
---------------
a Aa Aa

a Aa Aa

if you have a het X het you get: 1 normal, two hets, one "special"

A a
-----------
A AA Aa

a Aa aa

hopefully that ws explained correctly and easy to understand

So breeding a "special" to a "special" will get you what?
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Dustin Smith

Well honestly these are questions you ask BEFORE you get into breeding and the answers will become obvious as you learn more. You have different sub species so the first thing you want to do is keep those straight. Hets are fun to a point, the problem breeding het x het is that 3/4 of the clutch are normal looking POSSIBLE hets. In this day and age where you can get double morphs for less than $50 it makes it almost impossible to move your babies. Not having bred before I'm sure you think having too many babies to feed is a good problem, not for all of us. Most times you will end up wholesaling the babies for $5 or $10ea, and you wont see much for your efforts. Better to have fewer breeders with definate genetics. I am sitting on more than 30 baby kings that I cant move I want to stress that its not the money thing that I am stressing its the time/effort with the babies that can overwhelm a new breeder. You have less time with each individual, and because no one has a infinate amount of time to spend cleaning cages the rest of your collection can suffer.
Genetics--
Morph x het= 50% morphs/ 50% normal looking hets-10 eggs 5/5
het x het=25% morphs/75% normal looking POSSIBLE hets-10 eggs 3/7

>>... I think its probably time to get a better understanding of it...

Dustin, if you really want to understand it and be able to figure out breeding outcomes yourself, spend a little time to read the info at this site. I hope it helps.

Terry

genetics info

......Yes, that will help make it much more understandable in my opinion too.

To the OP,.....do yourself a HUGE favor and understand this real well BEFORE you place a SINGLE pair of snakes together at all. This will help make your projects far better paired for what genetic trait(s) you desire to produce,....or would even rather NOT produce too. It all matters, and can save you YEARS of time screwing around with inefficient breeding combinations!

BTW, whitewall x whitewall = ALL visual whitewall offspring...then whatever un-matched recessive trait(s) they might also have can be easily figured out using Terry's helpful website explanations of basic recessive genetics and their outcome percentages of each.

BTW,...also give some SERIOUS thought to what Jeff mentioned as to what you will do with any offspring produced, AND how you will maintain them until they are sold eventually. Believe me, it ain't all glitz and glamour!..LOL!....lots of housing, cleaning and feeding!

good luck!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Terry Thank-You. I read this post and that information is just what I was looking for. I am still thinking of what I want to get into, kingsnakes, corns, or milks. I like them all, but I don't want to go to crazy. Thanks again I hope he takes your advice.
Tom Swihart

Wow that was helpful, what a great article! Thanks!
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Dustin Smith

www.supersnakes.com/gwiz.htm
A simple tool for newbies.
But keep in mind the surprise factor! I have a line of longhaired mice which originated from one brindle shorthaired male. This trait is an anomaly I would never have forseen!
Also, as others have mentioned, you may wind up with a lot of extra snakes and no market for them. These are tiny little lives, so it is important to factor in will they all get a good home if brought into the world.
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Bob/Chris
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire

As I stated, I'm getting into kingsnake "morphs" and had many normal kingsnakes already. So cleaning, care, feeding, housing, is not a new thing for me. I've also bred rattlesnakes for the past 5 years so excess babies is not new to me either. But I agree, each one is a special little life and I do this because I enjoy caring for them all and spending time feeding them and handling them. My goal is not to get rich or have some fantasy about becoming a big breeder, and thanks to those who gave me some valuable information! Best forum on kingsnake!
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Dustin Smith

Then maybe its best you list what you have, males/females and we can help you with the pairings. Also, you may be better off swapping off before the breeding season to insure you maximize your efforts. Just trying to help.

Ok heres the morphs I would like to breed next year

2.2 Whitesided brooksi 1 male het for axanthic
1.2 het whitewall speckled kings
0.1 albino brooksi poss. het snow
1.0 anery brooksi het albino/snow
0.1 hypo brooksi
0.1 brooksi het hypo
1.0 lavender albino brooksi
1.0 lavender albino speckled king
0.1 albino speckled king
1.0 hypo brooksi
0.1 het albino brooksi

Thanks
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Dustin Smith

2.2 Whitesided brooksi 1 male het for axanthic
1.2 het whitewall speckled kings
0.1 albino brooksi poss. het snow
1.0 anery brooksi het albino/snow
0.1 hypo brooksi
0.1 brooksi het hypo
1.0 lavender albino brooksi
1.0 lavender albino speckled king
0.1 albino speckled king
1.0 hypo brooksi
0.1 het albino brooksi

2.3 WS brooks obviously with each other,
and the ws het anery with the lav poss het to prove
1.2 Hypo brooks-1 female het
1.1 Lav brooks-het female
Whitewall hets together
Try to trade one of the specks for the matching gene
Throw the anery male brooks in to get it done
You could produce:
Brooks:
White side
White side poss het anery
And depending on the poss het
Anery & normal het ws/lav
Hypo/het
Lav/het
Specks:
Whitewall/poss het whitewall
Whichever albino you can swap for.
You will see very few poss hets, maximized morphs, sound good?

Sounds excellent! Thanks so much, I'll post pics of all of them soon.
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Dustin Smith