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I can't wait to see eggs from this girl hatch......Probably in 2012

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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Yeah, that is a sweet one indeed!

I wouldn't mind an entire clutch of those bad boys!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

This will probably get me in a pile of sh** but I don't understand wanting to turn the natural beauty of the alternas into more 'designer' snakes. In my opinion the alternas are one of the most varied and colorful snakes in existance and to make more morphs is outragous. My personal opinion of the above is that it is ugly in comparison. Not meaning to step on anyones toes, as I said, this is MY oppinion.
theOLDherper
Pete

Why would voicing your opinion get you into a pile of anything... some posts are made to invite comments and opinions. Any reasonable person knows that not all those comments/opinions are going to agree with his.

I'd guess there are a few... one any way ... that agree with you Pete but don't voice it to avoid controversies or discourage future posts or simply say "hey, his cup of tea ain't mine" and move on to the next post.

You invite opinions... you have to be prepared for all of them.

Gerry

Well, I think there are probably more blairs and alterna phase animals than anyone knows what to do with in this hobby, and of course they are certainly quite beautiful too, and are highly revered. But the speckled grey form there is simply yet another type of their seemingly infinite variation, and a few speckled grey individuals certainly aren't going to do away with the classic blairs, or alterna phase that are available in the hobby.

I am definitely one who stands for that you don't always have to mess with sh** just because you can, and cross all sorts of ridiculous nonsense to try to come up with something you can slap a silly name on the label, no doubt about it, but the grey/speckled alterna ain't gonna throw any wrenches into things.

This of course is my opinion on it

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

As is so often the case with your posts... I agree.

I wasn't... and I'm fairly certain Peter wasn't... implying that his speckled alterna was a "travesty" to snakedom... just doesn't do a thing for me when it's compared to the "classics". Thankfully the only opinion that matters is John's and if he's happy with it I'm happy for him.

Gerry

And once again,...agreed!..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Speckled alterna are found in the wild in at least two know locales. Black Gap and River Road......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Yes, I know. They aren't a weird "designer" morph in the least.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

But I want my neon glow in the dark pinstripe carma-mochacina-latte ball python! Natural is ugly!
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

HAHAA!,..exactly!

touche'

~doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Those things are beneath you John! I can't believe you would breed such trash. I might be willing to take them off your hands and relieve you of the burden that they will surely bring upon you!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

That is very generous of you Jorge for volunteering to relieve his "burden"!..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>Those things are beneath you John! I can't believe you would breed such trash. I might be willing to take them off your hands and relieve you of the burden that they will surely bring upon you!

LOL...Come on over....I have a crapload of designer junk to hand out now......LMAO!!!!!

BTW...I didn't produce these.
They came from wild Black Gap lineage......No designers here and look very much like speckled alterna you could find in the Black Gap......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Cool! so it's like natures own designer morph, lol.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I think they are pretty cool but I also think line breeding is an almost inevitable consequence of captive production of these animals. Its my experience that these types come and go out of favor while the more classic forms endure so I wouldn't worry about it over much. Troy H posted some really spectacular Davis Mountain hatchlings on the classifieds yesterday. Lots of speckling but still exhibiting the classic alternating pattern that earned them the name alterna in the first place. There will always be a market for such well bred animals even if they don't draw the big bucks like designer types do for a time.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM

very typical for davis mtn snakes.

Might be typical but they had it all in my view. Don't know if I'm looking at them wrong but there seems to be real potential there for a lot of variability. I liked the near perfect alternates.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM

I happen to like Davis snakes. I said typical but I didn't say they weren't nice. Keep in mind they do tend to darken up quite a bit and don't generally have a lot of contrast as adults. Still doesn't bother me. You'll see a lot of "brown and brownish" backgrounds in these locals.

Take a look at the Davis gallery for some more examples of that range. These are animals from volcanic origin and it's usually pretty easy to pick them off.

www.kingsnake.com/alterna/dv/davis.html

I really liek this one by Troy as well:

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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM

Troy's name on the photo only represents photo credit, there's a large chance that was captured by someone else, and in that case I believe it was one of the Galvan's out of Alpine.

per the link you sent its from "Limpia Canyon, TX 17" but locality discussions are pretty much lost on me. I've yet to get out there and I'm in no position to have an appreciation of how habitat might have bent, or led to, this particular phenotype.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM

Yes, and you are quite correct. I was alluding to the home residence of the persons who may have collected that snake. Limpia Canyon is a few miles north of Ft Davis up hwy 17. Ft Davis is 26 miles from Alpine via Highway 118.

There's a map there on the Gallery page - a really nice map too

Part of the appeal of Black Gap alterna is the appearance of the Wild caught snakes, and John's babies aren't any different than something you might expect to find at Black Gap in the wild.

Two things though, first there is a tremendous amount of variation in that local, so they can display a totally different phenotype from there as well, and secondly I'm not saying John's snakes are from Black Gap, just that they sure look like they have some Black Gap in them.

>>Part of the appeal of Black Gap alterna is the appearance of the Wild caught snakes, and John's babies aren't any different than something you might expect to find at Black Gap in the wild.
>>
>>Two things though, first there is a tremendous amount of variation in that local, so they can display a totally different phenotype from there as well, and secondly I'm not saying John's snakes are from Black Gap, just that they sure look like they have some Black Gap in them.

They are from Larry Briggs Joe.
Andrew Godambe (from Dan Johnson) and Dan Johnson Black Gaps......

I guess not everyone knows that speckled alterna can be found in the wild........and not just created in a herp room....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

>>I guess not everyone knows that speckled alterna can be found in the wild........and not just created in a herp room....

Yup, especially in the western portion of the range. But even the manner of speckling, and triple alternates varies within the western portion of the range in a very telling manner.

The rosy boa guys can do the exact same with those Boas, and to me they all look the same.

Oh, and the only reason I worded that prior post the way I did is because of all the generic lines that originated from Black Gap and still carry a heavy Black Gap signature, but are very much mixed. Not to imply anything about your animals other than to me they definitely had some Gap in them.

>>This will probably get me in a pile of sh** but I don't understand wanting to turn the natural beauty of the alternas into more 'designer' snakes. In my opinion the alternas are one of the most varied and colorful snakes in existance and to make more morphs is outragous. My personal opinion of the above is that it is ugly in comparison. Not meaning to step on anyones toes, as I said, this is MY oppinion.
>>theOLDherper
>>Pete

I accept your opinion Pete. I hear and have read that you used to breed and sell alterna years ago....I guess you never ventured into the Black Gap locale and seen speckled alterna in the wild, because these aren't the result of line breeding designer snakes.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

>>This will probably get me in a pile of sh** but I don't understand wanting to turn the natural beauty of the alternas into more 'designer' snakes. In my opinion the alternas are one of the most varied and colorful snakes in existance and to make more morphs is outragous. My personal opinion of the above is that it is ugly in comparison. Not meaning to step on anyones toes, as I said, this is MY oppinion.
>>theOLDherper
>>Pete

Speckled Altern have been found in the wild. How does that make it any different than a "normal" alterna?
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www.brandonosbornereptiles.com

>>Yeah, that is a sweet one indeed!
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>>I wouldn't mind an entire clutch of those bad boys!
>>

Me neither!
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I agree w/ the poster peters, the natural looking phenotype of alterna is all I ever needed to see in alterna. I've never understood why some breeder wanted to see a hypo alterna, they look like an over exposed bad photo to me.
With that said I didn't see anything to odd w/ the grayband Jlassiter posted and was surprised to see peters call it a "designer" snake. I like it.

-Dell

>>I agree w/ the poster peters, the natural looking phenotype of alterna is all I ever needed to see in alterna. I've never understood why some breeder wanted to see a hypo alterna, they look like an over exposed bad photo to me.
>>With that said I didn't see anything to odd w/ the grayband Jlassiter posted and was surprised to see peters call it a "designer" snake. I like it.

Thanks Dell......Nothing too odd at all in my opinion.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

And a big thank you to the rest of you.
I learned a hell of a lot today. I knew there was a lot of variety in alternas but I didn't realise how much. I guess I still have a lot to catch up on.
I still have a love for the classics and I hope that breeders don't start getting to far into trying to makethem into some strange looking stuff like they have done with some of the other lampropeltis.
Again-thanks to all.
theOLDherper
Pete

NO Problem Pete......
I love their variability almost as much as I love thayeri variability.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Very nice John I have a pair of river road locale snakes from Tim Gebhard myself. Love those western alterna.
4lakessnakes.com

>>Very nice John I have a pair of river road locale snakes from Tim Gebhard myself. Love those western alterna.
>>4lakessnakes.com
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Nice animals John..

Some that don't know Alterna that well think that anything that is not blairs is a cross or man made.. Fact is that "most" alterna in the wild do not look like the classic blairs we are used to in the pet trade today..

Jorge, beat me to it, but ill be glad to take them off your hands as well.. : )~

Hope all is well!

~ Mike

>>Nice animals John..
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>>Some that don't know Alterna that well think that anything that is not blairs is a cross or man made.. Fact is that "most" alterna in the wild do not look like the classic blairs we are used to in the pet trade today..
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>>Jorge, beat me to it, but ill be glad to take them off your hands as well.. : )~
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>>Hope all is well!
>>

Everything is great over here......I almost have my dream collection but it still lacks those angry, hypo and ghost alterna.........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

>>
>>Everything is great over here......I almost have my dream collection but it still lacks those angry, hypo and ghost alterna.........
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Lol....angry.........I meant anery.......my Ipad doesn't know that word and "fixed" it for me......lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

John, let's put an end to this.....next time you come to Port Arthur, pack them ugly critters and I'll take 'em off your hands.
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Greg Jackson

>>John, let's put an end to this.....next time you come to Port Arthur, pack them ugly critters and I'll take 'em off your hands.

LOL.......I guess I need to give them all away and start over again........
BTW...I'll be up your way in a few weeks......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

>>I can't wait to see eggs from this girl hatch......Probably in 2012
>>
>>
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>>John Lassiter
>>Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
>>www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com
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www.brandonosbornereptiles.com

>>>>I can't wait to see eggs from this girl hatch......Probably in 2012
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>John Lassiter
>>>>Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
>>>>www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com
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>>www.brandonosbornereptiles.com
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com