Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Has anyone ever seen an eastern milk that resembles a black ratsnake? A friend of mine found a milk that is very dark and almost has twinning spots instead of "saddles" down it's back. I will have a pic up tomorrow. It is by far the most unusual eastern milk from MA i have ever seen!

There was a guy from Europe about a year or two ago that posted an Eastern milk with INSANELY small spots, and I think even bizarre nuchal striping. But we would certainly love to see pics of this one you are talking about!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>Has anyone ever seen an eastern milk that resembles a black ratsnake? A friend of mine found a milk that is very dark and almost has twinning spots instead of "saddles" down it's back. I will have a pic up tomorrow. It is by far the most unusual eastern milk from MA i have ever seen!

Interesting. Sounds to me that it might be a juvenile black racer, but you never know. Looking forward to the picture.
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Joe

No it's not a racer, i thought that at first as well. It is just under 3 feet. I keep racers as well. the pics will be up around 6 or 7 tonight lol

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Pretty poor image quality, and because of that you may get a few different opinions here, but it looks to me like a Prairie Kingsnake (Lampropeltis calligaster).

-Dell

>>Pretty poor image quality, and because of that you may get a few different opinions here, but it looks to me like a Prairie Kingsnake (Lampropeltis calligaster).
>>
>>-Dell

I thought about that too Dell, but he said it was found in MA. I guess it could be an escapee.

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Joe

Yeah, I thought about that too Joe, but still I couldn't come up w/ anything else that even came close, unless it is truly an unusual t. triangulum.

-Dell

God, I'm still chuckling over your above comments.

I actually had that thought (prarie)....and then I thought it may just be a DeKay's....?....

....

the pic made me all googley eyed....

and yes...my first thought was...odd milk, black,,,axanthic....then the pic comes up looking familiar...

.....I too was laughing....with you brother with you...never AT you....

.........we need a pic........!!!!
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........JY

I looked again...no way DeKay///

no idea...doesn't look corn,racer,rat, or milk...might be a prarie......why not.....from a mini Island...?.....
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........JY

>>Yeah, I thought about that too Joe, but still I couldn't come up w/ anything else that even came close, unless it is truly an unusual t. triangulum.
>>
>>-Dell
>>
>>God, I'm still chuckling over your above comments.

The reason to chuckle about my above comments (notice they've been removed) is mostly because of the truth behind the comments. Looks like the almighty is behind this whole post.

My comments again:

Looks like a snake! Are you sure someone else from this forum (who also happens to be from MA) didn't take these photos for you, lol.

Better pics of the head would help, but it looks pretty typical to me.
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Joe

Yeah, Terry, that's what it "looks" like to me too,...until I have to rub my eyes from it being so damn out of focus..LOL!

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Oh jeeze haha... ok i know im the masshole who dosnt know how to use a camera... i tried my best this time with my camera on my phone... these are better... kind of

LOL!,...I hear ya man, we were just havin some fun comments is all

It still looks to be a Prairie kingsnake to me(L.c.calligaster).

Note the exact same pair of nuchal stripes behind the head, and the occipitol stripe behind the eye following the angle of the jaw?.

From what I can make out in the not-so-good pics there, it looks to be a very typical Prairie king to me still.

Since you have the live specimen, and the pics are less than desireable for us to make-out well, do a google "image search" for yourself, and I think you will find this is exactly what you have there too.

regards, ~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Haha you guys crack me up. Yeah thats what I thought it was in the back of my mind, a prairie king. It's just they are not common at all in the pet trade... so god knows how it ended up in MA lol.

Yeah, that's true, but all sorts of things escape, or are let go around the country, and as you said, only god knows where they can actually end up (shrug)

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>Yeah, that's true, but all sorts of things escape, or are let go around the country, and as you said, only god knows where they can actually end up (shrug)

and the real threat is not when a prairie king shows up in mass, or a python in ohio.

It's when a king subspecies, for ex, shows up outside the expected range, not necessarily by a lot but by a little. Unless researchers (and observers such as ourselves) are willing to throw out examples that deviate too much and are thus "suspicious", animals' natural history can be greatly misunderstood. Yet if we exclude such variants, we may not understand the scope of the animals' genetic diversity. It's a mess, especially in small areas, as for ex in north florida/panhandle where people are trying to figure out some special sorts of kings.

And don't even get me going about hybrids. How many times more hybrids than prairie kings do you suppose are in the market? And how often do you think particularly unattractive mutts might be released in the wild instead of culled by putting them down?

Boy!!,..you can say THAT again Terry!...excellent points that I of course agree 100% with!

Now days, whenever something bizarre, or even a snake that is just a tad out of place in a certain range is found, one can NEVER exclude that it can VERY possibly be from the hands of irresponsible herpers. Or NOT!!,....that is the entire problem in a "nut-shell", because there is absolutely no way to tell with certain phenotypes....period!

Take(you know who) for example..LOL!!, with all the COUNTLESS cornsnake morphs he released up and down the entire eastern sea board over the course of many years!......ARRRRGH!!

Man, the Okeetee area of Jasper County ALONE has had all SORTS of corns released in it, nevermind everywhere else. Certainly lots of different kings have been done the very same with too. The "what", "where" and "when" will always be a mystery thogh folks

Anyway, good thoughts Terry!,...I think about this stuff quite often too.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Whatever it is, it looks like a "blur's phase". Get it?
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http://www.mikefoux.com
http://snakerack.blogspot.com

2.6.2 Hondurans (Normal, amel, hypo, anery, ghost)
1.2.0 Pueblans (Normal, hypo)
0.1.0 Corn Bloodred
0.0.1 GBK Blair's Phase
1.1.0 California King (normal, blue-eyed blond)
0.2.0 Speckled Kings Calcasieu Parish locality
1.1.0 Brooksi Hypo
1.1.0 Goini/Brooks Cross (Blaze and hypo)
1.1.0 San Diego gophers
0.0.1 Texas Rat
0.0.1 Jungle Carpet
0.1.0 Ball, Normal
0.0.1 Sulcata
1.2.1 Leopard Geckos(various morphs)
0.1.0 Wife, Caucasius Mexicana Integrade WC

"Whatever it is, it looks like a "blur's phase"

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>Whatever it is, it looks like a "blur's phase". Get it?

vaguely.

Hey, you guys have fun over here, maybe I shoud forget the kings and go to milksnakes.
theOLDherper
Pete

....it's because Davis and Forks hardly ever show up over here..LOL!

Davis has gotten his butt chewed-up real good up, down, and sideways over here in the past for some of his "outstanding" comments. It was sort of like watching a minnow trying to survive in a shark tank!..LMAO!!!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

your so full of douglass its not even funny, you couldnt dance then and you cant dance now.
,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

...that 98% of the time a "friend" always finds the animal posted about????? I guess I need to get a better bunch of friends 'cause they NEVER find squat.

Thanks for that. I realy needed it after the butt kicking I took over there.
theOLDherper
Pete

Blurs phase

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"He's down in the basement staring at his snakes " My Wife

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Doug L